Re: [asa] How to respond to a YEC's version of "science"

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Tue Jan 13 2009 - 12:25:53 EST

I'd like to hear both sides of this Galileo situation again before judging

My recollection is that Cardinal Bellarmine went to Galileo and in so many
words told him they see also see the phases of the moons change as they
orbit planets. So they didn't dispute his observations. It is a myth that
they disputed his observations. But Galileo was asked to not stir the pot
politically with the masses by publicly disputing theology. In other words,
the church didnt take the anti-science position that has been rumored in
modern times. And Galileo's problem was his theology.

And the other problem was Galileo's book that depicted his alleged friend,
the pope, as a simpleton.

Now how do I know this? Partly James Burke. And Stephen Barr may have
written about it. But whats most important here is to get the history

Well, I don't have time to research this. Nevertheless, here I am as a
protestant defending the Catholic church.

Seems to me what folks need to do is document the historical facts on the
ASA wiki, then point to them within their arguments. It seems reasonable
to make sure there really was a Galileo affair to explain away.

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Kirk Bertsche <> wrote:

> As Bernie says, the Galileo affair is a good illustration of divine
> accommodation and overly literal interpretation. But the errors of the
> Catholic church can be easily dismissed by Protestants. It may be helpful
> to show that Luther and Calvin also fell into similar errors:
> "Scripture simply says that the moon, the sun, and the stars were placed in
> the firmament of the heaven, below and above which heaven are the waters...
> It is likely that the stars are fastened to the firmament like globes of
> fire, to shed light at night... We Christians must be different from the
> philosophers in the way we think about the causes of things. And if some are
> beyond our comprehension like those before us concerning the waters above
> the heavens, we must believe them rather than wickedly deny them or
> presumptuously interpret them in conformity with our understanding."--Martin
> Luther, Lectures on Genesis
> "People gave ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth
> revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever
> wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is
> of course the very best. This fool [or 'man'] wishes to reverse the entire
> science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded
> the sun to stand still, and not the earth."- Martin Luther, Table Talk
> "Those who assert that 'the earth moves and turns'...[are] motivated by 'a
> spirit of bitterness, contradiction, and faultfinding;' possessed by the
> devil, they aimed 'to pervert the order of nature.'"- John Calvin
> "Who will venture to place the authority of Copernicus above that of the
> Holy Spirit?"- John Calvin
> Kirk
> On Jan 6, 2009, at 8:38 AM, Dehler, Bernie wrote:
> Also explain to him how the church went thru this already with the Galileo
> affair- same thing only different.

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Received on Tue Jan 13 12:35:12 2009

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