Re: [asa] How to respond to a YEC's version of "science"

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Tue Jan 13 2009 - 12:34:25 EST

The YECer reportedly said:
"It's just not the one sided research & filtered science with which we've
all been inundated."

My point was the irony that "one sided research and filtered history" form
the basis of much what is taught in the baptist church, and I say that
because I am a baptist who has for decades attended general baptist
conference churches so I am painfully aware from direct experience. Its
a matter of policing one's own back yard and demanding some integrity. We
baptists should be more kindly to our Catholic brothers.
We need to stop one sided research, stop filtering science, and stop
filtering history.

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 11:25 AM, David Clounch <>wrote:

> I'd like to hear both sides of this Galileo situation again before judging
> it.
> My recollection is that Cardinal Bellarmine went to Galileo and in so
> many words told him they see also see the phases of the moons change as
> they orbit planets. So they didn't dispute his observations. It is a myth
> that they disputed his observations. But Galileo was asked to not stir the
> pot politically with the masses by publicly disputing theology. In other
> words, the church didnt take the anti-science position that has been rumored
> in modern times. And Galileo's problem was his theology.
> And the other problem was Galileo's book that depicted his alleged friend,
> the pope, as a simpleton.
> Now how do I know this? Partly James Burke. And Stephen Barr may have
> written about it. But whats most important here is to get the history
> right.
> Well, I don't have time to research this. Nevertheless, here I am as a
> protestant defending the Catholic church.
> Seems to me what folks need to do is document the historical facts on the
> ASA wiki, then point to them within their arguments. It seems reasonable
> to make sure there really was a Galileo affair to explain away.
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Kirk Bertsche <> wrote:
>> As Bernie says, the Galileo affair is a good illustration of divine
>> accommodation and overly literal interpretation. But the errors of the
>> Catholic church can be easily dismissed by Protestants. It may be helpful
>> to show that Luther and Calvin also fell into similar errors:
>> "Scripture simply says that the moon, the sun, and the stars were placed
>> in the firmament of the heaven, below and above which heaven are the
>> waters... It is likely that the stars are fastened to the firmament like
>> globes of fire, to shed light at night... We Christians must be different
>> from the philosophers in the way we think about the causes of things. And if
>> some are beyond our comprehension like those before us concerning the waters
>> above the heavens, we must believe them rather than wickedly deny them or
>> presumptuously interpret them in conformity with our understanding."--Martin
>> Luther, Lectures on Genesis
>> "People gave ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the
>> earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon.
>> Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all
>> systems is of course the very best. This fool [or 'man'] wishes to reverse
>> the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua
>> commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth."- Martin Luther, Table
>> Talk
>> "Those who assert that 'the earth moves and turns'...[are] motivated by 'a
>> spirit of bitterness, contradiction, and faultfinding;' possessed by the
>> devil, they aimed 'to pervert the order of nature.'"- John Calvin
>> "Who will venture to place the authority of Copernicus above that of the
>> Holy Spirit?"- John Calvin
>> Kirk
>> On Jan 6, 2009, at 8:38 AM, Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>> Also explain to him how the church went thru this already with the
>> Galileo affair- same thing only different.

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Received on Tue Jan 13 12:35:04 2009

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