RE: [asa] RE: (the answer) fun- an evolution riddle (Memes)

From: Dehler, Bernie <>
Date: Mon Jan 12 2009 - 11:26:55 EST

That's why it was built into the question "What would Dawkins say". Also- why object to memes- is it just because Dawkins goes to far in saying that explains how religion came to be, ignoring the input of divine revelation in addition?


From: David Opderbeck []
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:23 PM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Subject: Re: [asa] RE: (the answer) fun- an evolution riddle

Hmmm, well, even many TE's reject the concept of memes (see Alister McGrath, "Dawkins' God: Genes, Memes and the Meaning of Life"), as do many other ordinary scientists who find the concept unscientific.

David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology

On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Dehler, Bernie <<>> wrote:
Yup- David got the final piece of the puzzle- memes. This was my answer to the question posed to me in the dream:

1. Big bang made stars
2. Stars explode and make other chemicals
3. These new chemicals coagulate and form planets
4. Biological life emerges on planet Earth
5. Life biologically evolves- from very simple to pigs and humans, making
  pigs and human biologically related (cousins of some sort). This
  evolution happens in genes.
6. Humans invent things using evolution (memes)- resulting in a VW bug (or
  any other great human work, such as building a cathedral, computer,
  jewelry, etc.)

To answer this, you have to know two things:

1. Evolution applies to more than just biology. something not commonly known. It is a grand, overarching, theory. There is also cosmological evolution, for example, explaining how complex planets evolved from stars. Many people think evolution is just limited to biology.

2. The concept of meme's, as thoughts of humans evolve, resulting in ever more complex systems (cars, computers, financial systems, etc.).

Both of these points are something that YEC's would likely rebuke. They say the VW is evidence of "intelligent design" and the same should therefore apply to more complex systems such as microbiological machines. However, this test question I just gave may point out the opposite- just as biological systems arise through evolution, so do cars (or watches- maybe that would be a better picture since it would relate to Paley's argument). In this way, evolution just swallowed-up the intelligent design hypothesis.


From:<> [<>] On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 10:17 AM
Subject: [asa] fun- an evolution riddle

I got this riddle in dream (actually saw this similar powerpoint slide). See the picture below. If you can't see the picture in email, see the pdf file here:

I got the question in a dream, and answered it in a dream. After awakening, I clarified the question.

I'll post my answer in a few days. I'd like to see if anyone gets the same answer or has a better one.



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Received on Mon Jan 12 11:27:39 2009

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