Re: Fw: [asa] Appeasing TE?

From: Don Winterstein <>
Date: Sun Dec 28 2008 - 09:54:04 EST

we need to disabuse people of the notion that belief in an old earth is motivated by an attempt to defend Darwinian evolution.

This notion actually has things backwards. I suppose it's time again to point out that "evidence for evolution from DNA" would be nothing but a bunch of unexplainable curiosities unless there were independent evidence of Earth's great age and also independent evidence that organisms have undergone major changes down through time. The fossil record combined with evidences for great age provide far more compelling evidence for evolution than DNA by itself. In fact, by itself DNA offers no evidence at all. DNA studies combined with research into ongoing variations in organisms provides some evidence for evolution, but quantified ongoing variations are trivial compared with what's needed to compellingly support a theory of common descent.

Once great age and actual major changes in organisms have been established (and only then), some particulars of DNA provide great supporting evidence for evolution and common descent.


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: gordon brown<mailto:Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>
  Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:07 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [asa] Appeasing TE?

  On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, David Opderbeck wrote:

> IMHO, the best treatments from a broadly evangelical perspective right now
> are Denis Alexander, "Creation or Evolution: Do We Have to Choose"; Daniel
> Harrell, "Nature's Witness"; and Davis Young, "The Bible, Rocks and Time";
> Gordon Glover, "Beyond the Firmament"; and Loren and Deborah Haarsma,
> "Origins." All of these use clear language and are sensitive to the
> concerns of a conservative readership.
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology

  I recently finished reading the book by Young and Stearley. I found it to
  be excellent. It gives a discussion of the history of scientific
  discoveries and Biblical interpretations related to the age of the earth
  that I wish Christians were aware of. It also clearly sets out the
  negative effects that young earth creationism has on evangelism and

  The science in this book is restricted to geology. Evolution is mentioned
  only briefly in connection with history. The authors never reveal what
  their views are on evolution. I think this is important because we need to
  disabuse people of the notion that belief in an old earth is motivated by
  an attempt to defend Darwinian evolution.

  Gordon Brown (ASA member)
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 6:28 AM, Jack Haas <<>> wrote:
>> I think that Michael hits the nail on the head.
>> Perhaps, we would be better served (and serve) if there were fewer
>> insistent attempts to proclaim the validity of ones's
>> received views and build a consensus for today's audience.
>> I'm currently tearing out what little hair I have left attempting to put
>> together something on paleontology that will be helpful
>> to web readers. Any ideas?
>> Enjoy this time of celebrating our Lord's birth.
>> Jack Haas
>> Michael Roberts wrote:
>> There have been so many books articles and treatments of the subject over
>> the last 150 years that I don't know where to start. Theologically these
>> vary from extreme liberal to Fundamentalist (in the original meaning of
>> that word). As a result there is no manifesto but rather how theologians of
>> different perspectives dealt with evolution in a positive way.
>> Michael
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Gregory Arago <<>>
>> *To:* David Clounch <<>>
>> *Cc:*<>
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 22, 2008 10:03 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [asa] Appeasing TE?
>> David Clounch wrote:
>> "What I would suggest is someone should make a rigorous definition [of TE].
>> A manifesto. Or something like that. Or is that too much?"
>> The closest you'll get to this is "Perspectives of an Evolving Creation"
>> edited by Keith Miller. Several of the participants on this list wrote
>> articles for this collection..
>> Gregory
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Received on Sun Dec 28 09:55:20 2008

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