Re: [asa] Appeasing TE?

From: David Clounch <david.clounch@gmail.com>
Date: Wed Dec 24 2008 - 14:40:13 EST

On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Dick Fischer <dickfischer@verizon.net>wrote:

> Hi Dave:
>
>
>
> Sometimes I think YECs have a distinct advantage in that they can be
> entirely wrong and yet totally agree.
>
Dick,
Thats hilarious! I like the way you write!

> Whether one is a deist or theist depends on the degree of involvement
> he/she believes the Creator has with his creation, I agree.
>
>
>
> IDs think you can slice up a creature and catch the Creator in the act of
> creating, whereas TEs believe it is not so obvious. Is that precise
> enough?
>
I'd buy that.

>
>
> Where you and I might differ a bit (and that's what TEs do best) is where
> you say: "One can subdivide theistic evolution into the perception of design
> through scientific means (ID) " I see ID and TE as two distinctly
> different, competing methods of apology whereas you seem to place ID as a
> subordinate belief within the realm of TE.
>
Interesting ideas. I knewwwwww it wasn't so simple.

> I doubt we can fine tune our beliefs to that degree, but in the spirit of
> Christmas, why belabor the point? If that's how you see it, that's how
> you see it. Or if you see it differently, that's okay too.
>
Wonderful! I am dancing on my heels here like Snoopy on top of a Christmas
doghouse! Because I have options where I can ask difficult questions, yet
I don't have to be a follower of Ken Hamm!!! YAY!!!

Thanks Dave and Dick. I appreciate you guys immensely.

>
>
> Dick Fischer, GPA president
>
> Genesis Proclaimed Association
>
> "Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"
>
> www.genesisproclaimed.org
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of D. F. Siemens, Jr.
> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:45 PM
> To: dickfischer@verizon.net
> Cc: smatheso@calvin.edu; asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] Appeasing TE?
>
>
>
>
>
> Dick,
>
> What you are presenting as TE is really DE, for deists are committed to
>
> development without supernatural means. A theist is committed to God's
>
> hand in everything, including what we think of as natural law. What we
>
> need to remember throughout is that we are dealing with a combination of
>
> scientific and metaphysical thinking here, whether atheistic, deistic,
>
> panentheistic, pantheistic, theistic, etc. One can subdivide theistic
>
> evolution into the perception of design through scientific means (ID) or
>
> the perception of design necessarily outside of scientific means, usually
>
> recognized as simply TE or EC, although it may sometimes be a version of
>
> OEC. I think that OEC is more commonly a version of ID, however.
>
> Dave (ASA)
>
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:15:31 -0500 "Dick Fischer"
>
> <dickfischer@verizon.net> writes:
>
> > What I think we would be safe in saying is that TEs believe in
>
> > biological evolution through natural, not supernatural means. That
>
> > doesn't mean we can't believe in a supernatural beginning at the
>
> > inception of the Big Bang or a divine kick start to the appearance
>
> > of
>
> > life. And we are theists, which recognizes the Creator and an
>
> > involvement in the Creation. Beyond that we can agree or disagree
>
> > as to
>
> > how deeply involved the Creator might be.
>
> >
>
> > Dick Fischer, GPA president
>
> > Genesis Proclaimed Association
>
> > "Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"
>
> > www.genesisproclaimed.org
>
> >
>
> >
>
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Received on Wed Dec 24 14:40:52 2008

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