Re: Fw: [asa] Appeasing TE?

From: Michael Roberts <>
Date: Tue Dec 23 2008 - 16:58:12 EST

I wont hit your head as you may have less hair than me!

I am sure Keith or David Campbell could check , though David my clam up:)

some thoughts;

First of all you left an "a" out of palaeontology .

Fossils realised as life in late 17th century

Extinction in 1790s

Order of fossils c 1810 all anti-evolutionary!

Emphasis general sequence of life forms , you could use Miller's diagrams from the Testimony of the Rocks (i.e. pre-Darwin)

And from my chapter in debating Design

            Miller in Finding Darwin's God[1] mischievously considers design in relation to elephants with 22 species in the last 6 million years and many more going back to the Eocene. If all were "formed" at about the same time in c8000 BC, then the only reasonable explanation is some kind of intelligent intervention, which designed each to be different, rather like cars made by Chrysler or GM over several decades.

If geological timescale be correct, then these different fossil elephants appeared consecutively and despite "gaps" form a graded sequence. They indicate only "annual model upgrade". Assuming that this is a fairly complete sequence, the Intelligent Designer seemed to have adopted the same sequence of modifications as would be expected by evolution. This is exactly the point Darwin made in his 1844 draft;

            I must premise that, according to the view ordinarily received, the myriads of organisms, which have during past and present times peopled this world, have been created by so many distinct acts of creation. . That all the organisms of this world have been produced on a scheme is certain from their general affinities; and if this scheme can be shown to be the same with that which would result from allied organic beings descending from common stocks, it becomes highly improbable that they have been separately created by individual acts of the will of a Creator. For as well might it be said that, although the planets move in courses conformably to the law of gravity, yet we ought to attribute the course of each planet to the individual act of the will of the Creator.[2]



[1] K. Miller, Finding Darwin's God, 1999, New York: Harper Collins95-9

[2] C Darwin The Essay of 1844, Works of Charles Darwin, vol. 10, p133/4

----- Original Message -----
  From: Jack Haas
  To: Michael Roberts ; ASA list
  Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:28 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [asa] Appeasing TE?

  I think that Michael hits the nail on the head.

  Perhaps, we would be better served (and serve) if there were fewer insistent attempts to proclaim the validity of ones's
  received views and build a consensus for today's audience.

  I'm currently tearing out what little hair I have left attempting to put together something on paleontology that will be helpful
  to web readers. Any ideas?

  Enjoy this time of celebrating our Lord's birth.

  Jack Haas

  Michael Roberts wrote:

    There have been so many books articles and treatments of the subject over the last 150 years that I don't know where to start. Theologically these vary from extreme liberal to Fundamentalist (in the original meaning of that word). As a result there is no manifesto but rather how theologians of different perspectives dealt with evolution in a positive way.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Gregory Arago
      To: David Clounch
      Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [asa] Appeasing TE?

            David Clounch wrote:
            "What I would suggest is someone should make a rigorous definition [of TE]. A manifesto. Or something like that. Or is that too much?"

            The closest you'll get to this is "Perspectives of an Evolving Creation" edited by Keith Miller. Several of the participants on this list wrote articles for this collection..



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Received on Tue Dec 23 16:58:44 2008

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