RE: [asa] promise trumps biology (Gregory's response)

From: Dehler, Bernie <>
Date: Thu Dec 18 2008 - 11:06:27 EST

Gregory asks why thoughts should be "attacked." I don't see any point in getting into arguments on word-play. Why isn't it obvious that thoughts are attacked in a debate? Is that word too harsh? I don't think so. There's also Scripture warrant for it:

2 Corinthians 10:5
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Gregory doubts that I have more scientific knowledge than the "average man in the pew" because I'm an evangelist and work in the computer field. I don't get it. What does an occupation have to do with knowledge? As if a Ph.D. qualifies people to speak on all things scientific, regardless of which scientific filed the Ph.D. is in. Or is the point that I need to have a Ph.D. to be on this listserv? I don't think there is a point.

Gregory also says I'm bad because I violate the 4 post a day rule. Yes- two days ago I posted 5 posts because one was a post about how I discovered why posting weren't going thru for some people, and I thought people would appreciate that info. Other than that, you'd be pressed to find me violating the 4 post rule. It isn't like I'm a frequent abuser of the posting rules. Again- what was the point

Gregory says that when I say "the average man in the pew" I'm being sexist. Maybe I should have said "the average woman?" No- that's sexist too. Does anybody really care, besides Gregory?

I find all this stuff from Gregory extremely petty, and irritating. He used to send me these kind of emails privately, and I told him I wasn't going to bother reading or replying unless he wanted to do it publicly. From what I hear, he's the one who's sending other people private emails and harassing them.

From: Gregory Arago []
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:13 AM
To:;; Dehler, Bernie
Subject: RE: [asa] promise trumps biology (accepting biological evolution for Adam)

Thank you George for your tolerant approach and balanced explanation. I certainly do see that you are "very much interested in persuading Christians that evolution should be dealt with adequately in the ways they think about the world & their faith," even if we do not always agree in the fine details of the conversation. With mercy, hopefully this tone and temperament can be shared and spread, especially to those who are engaged in a 'culture war' mentality, which may be (said as an outsider) one of the unhealthiest things in American society today.


Bernie wrote:
"I really want to attack thoughts and it isn't personal."

Arago responds:
Thoughts are held by people. Why use such language as 'attack'?

Bernie continues: "The more I talk to Christians about science, the more deplorable I find their understanding. Unfortunately, the movie "Religulous" made this point well: the average man in the pew is pathetic when it comes to reason and science. Maybe it is the attitude of compromise by some Pastors that are facilitating this? I love evangelism, and talking to atheists. They have no patience for any garbage (compromise) at all. I think we need to awaken the sleepers."

Arago: You find 'their' understanding deplorable, pathetic and you condscend upon it, Bernie, which implies that you have more scientific knowledge than they do. Is it not true that you are not a scientist, Bernie, but rather an electric engineer and evangelist as you said when asked upon beginning to post on the ASA list?

Aside from exceeding the 4-post per day limit, I find this type of aggressive evangelical approach to science, philosophy and theology rather counter-productive. If someone wishes to use the list to build an 'arsenal' for his or her apologetics, is this the type of behavior that ASA usually condones?

Lastly, just recently I reminded you, Bernie. After George's post which mentioned "your insistence that she see everything your way," let me please remind you again that "the average man in the pew" is old-school language that is now considered sexist. The average person is more appropriate.

Thanks for listening, Bernie.

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Received on Thu Dec 18 11:07:19 2008

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