RE: [asa] Four views

From: Jon Tandy <>
Date: Thu Dec 18 2008 - 09:52:53 EST



Your claim is, ID is unbiblical because it says: "Design is only detectable
to scientists who can probe the structures of the flagellum, etc." This may
be a reasonable point, but I think it is overstating or misstating the ID
case, and therefore is overreaching. As far as I know, they don't say that
God's design is only detectable by microbiologists and information
theorists. Those are just evidentiary paths that the leaders of ID use to
justify the design inference from scientific evidence, but it is used to
support what they would claim is a more general fact of our ability to
detect design in nature, which is evident even to those without scientific


There may be other ways in which ID could be unbiblical (or at least
extra-biblical), such as requiring that God's action must be scientifically
detectable, or when it heads down "God of the gaps" rabbit trails. Your
argument may even be valid if ID leaders claimed that their sophisticated
reasons are the only types of places where design is evident. But I don't
know that they generally make this type of claim.


Jon Tandy


From: [] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: [asa] Four views


Randy wrote:

I'm not sure why you say "ID strikes me as entirely unbiblical." That
doesn't seem fair to me. It may be non-biblical in the sense that it doesn't
address nor reflect biblically based concepts. But it isn't opposed to
biblical ideas, is it? Maybe to some degree, to the extent that ID may
insist on design being detectable in a particular manner.

Phil's reply:

Hi Randy,
Well, of course I don't think that the ID'ers are trying to be non-biblical,
or that they even realize that ID is not very well aligned with Scripture.
But I believe it is contrary to the major theme of the NT that "God hides
from the wise and reveals himself to babes," and "the kingdom of heaven
belongs to such as these [children]," and "where are the wise of this
world?...God has chosen the foolish things of this world to shame the
wise..." This theme seems pretty central. I don't think we can set it
aside without losing something of the general tenor of biblical
Christianity. But it is the kind of thing that people can and do set aside
to their own satisfaction quite easily. It's tough for us biased humans to
really align ourselves with truth. If there is no mathematical or
scientific process to approach a particular branch of truth, then it is
almost hopeless to get everyone to align with it. So it is with Scriptural
epistemology. So if the ID'ers think they've discovered a way to prove
God's design, then the excitement of that will probably carry them along for
many years and they will be unable to see past it and thus align themselves
with the overall epistemology of Scripture.



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Received on Thu Dec 18 09:53:19 2008

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