Re: [asa] Four views

From: Randy Isaac <>
Date: Wed Dec 17 2008 - 15:05:06 EST

  You are certainly right about this from a theological and logical perspective. I used that terminology hesitantly but wanted to emphasize the connection with specified complexity. In other words, what I wanted to point out was that, like a deck of cards that is dealt, once you have a population of living organisms in play, then some set of species will be the result. If you specify a priori that this had to be precisely our species with the human genome, that puts a different spin on the "front-loading" or "tweaking" or whatever compared with the case where whatever hand is dealt we'll play. That is, whatever species evolves with consciousness, is the one to which God will relate. I agree that whatever happens will be "intended" by God so this really means our finite and very human attempt to understand it.

  ----- Original Message -----
  Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 2:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Four views

  I have problems with the categories "God intended" versus "God didn't intend." I don't know how it can be that God didn't intend any of the things that actually happened. If it happened, then obviously he intended it. I think you have to define what you mean by "unintended", and I'm not sure it can be defined very precisely or meaningfully.

  Example: did God intend for us to have a broken gene for Vitamin C production, or was it an accident of evolution? I don't think this is a real either-or choice. I think God intends every accident to occur. By "accident" we simply mean that there were secondary causes and from our limited perspective they seemed to lack design.

  Maybe we can define it in terms of probability: pseudogenes are probable in the set of all possible universes because of Darwinian mechanisms. Then we can say TE believes God intended the universe to be typical among the set of all possible universes in that it contains a great many secondary causes that are common within that set. Thus, broken genes indicates the predominance of ordinary secondary causes. ID says OTOH that these ordinary secondary causes aren't sufficiently effective to produce in many situations and so there exist many improbable features of life in this univerese. But either way, we can say God **intended** it to happen exactly as it did happen.


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Dehler, Bernie <>
  Cc: <>
  Sent: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:50 am
  Subject: RE: [asa] Four views

Randy said:
" TE: Human beings are the intended, purposeful result of God's creative act."

I don't think TE's necessary say that humans were God's intent- the final form
could have been different. Being made in God's image doesn't necessary mean the
human image (shape and body plan) is God's image. What does it mean to be "in
God's image?" Theologians debate it, even within the same Christian camps and


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf
Of John Burgeson (ASA member)
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:39 AM
To: Randy Isaac
Subject: Re: [asa] Four views

On 12/16/08, Randy Isaac <> wrote:
> Perhaps one might summarize some of the various metaphysical viewpoints like
> this:
> TE: Human beings are the intended, purposeful result of God's creative act.
> How do we know this? Because God has revealed it to us in his Word. We may
> or may not find direct evidence of it, or the mechanism for it, in the
> details of the intermediate evolutionary processes but even if we did, the
> basis of knowledge is God's revelation. Revealed knowledge.
I would tend to modify this just a litttle bit. The sentence "Because
God has revealed it to us in his Word" is too restrictive. I think he
has revealed it to us also in other ways, for some of us actual
epiphanies. So I'd just say "Because God has revealed it to us."

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Received on Wed Dec 17 15:05:42 2008

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