RE: [asa] promise trumps biology (accepting biological evolution for Adam)

From: Dick Fischer <dickfischer@verizon.net>
Date: Tue Dec 16 2008 - 19:30:08 EST

Hi Bernie:
 
Why I can't say beyond doubt that Adam was either specially created or
had natural parents is because I don't see enough evidence either way.
Eve fashioned from his side is a different story. It is simply take it
or leave it. You can either believe it or not. Thanks for the tip that
I need to think about it more. Believe me, I have spent more time
thinking about these issues and the ramifications and hopping down the
rabbit trails than any other living, breathing human being. What I
really need is more data. Even if the Y-chromosome of every male on
earth could be traced to one common ancestor it still would not preclude
in and outers. It is possible, remotely I think, that all Ham, Shem and
Japheth's male descendants eventually met a genetic dead end. Each time
a couple has only females or all the males either don't procreate or
have only girls, the male of that couple has met a Y-chromosome dead
end. It could be that no one on earth today is related to Adam, or some
could be and others not. It is just not feasible that everyone contains
Adamic ancestry. At any rate, if one believes Adam was created de
nouveau, that could be true. Or if someone believes Adam had parents
that also could be true. And either way I don't see a particular Bible
conflict. When God "created great whales" he didn't pop them out of
thin air or thin sea water, they had forerunners.
 
Dick Fischer, GPA president
Genesis Proclaimed Association
"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"
www.genesisproclaimed.org
 
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:26 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] promise trumps biology (accepting biological
evolution for Adam)
 
Hi Dick- the only reason why you can't go "all the way" with evolution-
common descent for humans, is because of the Bible, sounds like to me.
Same reason why people deny evolution- because of the Bible. However, I
don't think you realize how against science you are by thinking a new
creation could mix with "pre-Adamites." You give a hint that you are
thinking about it when you say "But for his offspring to have been
biologically compatible with evolved human beings is a stretch for me."
I think you need to think about that more- indeed, the stretch won't
stretch that far. It's not a stretch, but an impossible gap. it
wouldn't work.
 
Coope said:
"I am curious why you are reluctant to favor biological compatibility
with pre Adamites? The creation of any fresh-baked life forms would be
superior in design only if they were compatible with their environment.
Using the same patterns found in DNA, etc., of the pre-Adamites would
yield a biologically sound body and, perhaps, mind. "
 
The pre-Adamites would have had cancer and all the other sicknesses,
etc. What exactly did this "new creation of Adam" bring to the table,
DNA wise? Did sickness and death hit the pre-Adamites before Adam?
When you say "The creation of any fresh-baked life forms would be
superior in design only if they were compatible with their environment"
that "environment" means all the messed-up genes that the pre-adamites
had. as well as what we still have today (pseudogenes).
 
.Bernie
 
  _____

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of George Cooper
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 8:35 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] promise trumps biology (accepting biological
evolution for Adam)
 
Hi Dick,
 
I am curious why you are reluctant to favor biological compatibility
with pre Adamites? The creation of any fresh-baked life forms would be
superior in design only if they were compatible with their environment.
Using the same patterns found in DNA, etc., of the pre-Adamites would
yield a biologically sound body and, perhaps, mind. Of course, a few
enhancements would be understandable if this new fresh-baked person
would receive a living soul and be given childhood status -- who wants
just another loaf. :-) I even suspect these enhancements gave Adam
enough advance to be the first to "till the ground", due to
chronological evidence allowing generation gaps some you gave in
article, "In Search of the Historical Adam". [I enjoyed your article
and agree with most of it, though I'm no one with a big stick. BTW, the
link at the bottom of the page of part 1 does not work to get to part
2.]
 
What I like about this compatibility idea is that it suggests the
possibility that His design allows all sorts of life forms to exist on
planets throughout the cosmos, but only where environments allow. Only
on a very few number of planets, probably, will life forms evolve to the
level of intelligent Homo Sapiens. If this grants them consideration to
be involved in God's plan for communion with Him, including possible
eternal life, so much the better. The dynamic evolutionary process,
both beautiful and harsh, becomes a powerful means to an important end,
and all accomplished with, essentially, only 4 forces and some energy to
make His cosmos. [Matter followed after energy cooled.]
 
Further, with compatible Homo Sapiens, it gives Cain more reason to
fear, assuming he saw the pre-Adamites as somewhat equal in
intelligence, and a way to marry and have children, without the need to
rationalize incest.
 
 
Coope
 
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Dick Fischer
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:25 PM
To: 'Dehler, Bernie'
Cc: ASA
Subject: RE: [asa] promise trumps biology (accepting biological
evolution for Adam)
 
Hi Bernie:
 
Frankly, I don't have enough evidence at hand to put full faith in
Adam's creation. I lean toward that view: three separate accounts say
he (Adam, Atum, Adapa/Adamu) was created, he was long-lived according to
Genesis and a very special individual, and Eve is described as created
from Adam. But for his offspring to have been biologically compatible
with evolved human beings is a stretch for me. So I have reservations.
 
Dick Fischer, GPA president
Genesis Proclaimed Association
"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"
www.genesisproclaimed.org
 

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Tue Dec 16 19:30:29 2008

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Tue Dec 16 2008 - 19:30:29 EST