Re: [asa] Occult crankery and the vitality of our email list

From: Michael McCray <momcmd3@gmail.com>
Date: Mon Dec 15 2008 - 12:43:04 EST

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Michael McCray <momcmd3@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 6:03 PM, John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> This all seems a little harsh to me. If you recall Michael McCray debuted
>> on the list recently with a very thoughtful email that stimulated a lot of
>> very interesting discussion. I was as dissapointed as you were to get this
>> email this morning because it seems such a shame for someone with so much
>> potential fall into this type of deception.
>>
>> But remember almost all of us here came out of some deception before we
>> found our way here. I suggest that before we jump to these final measures,
>> possibly we give Mike the benefit of the doubt and point out the boundaries
>> of the list are the intersection of science and Christian theology and see
>> if will respect that and possibly he may be able to still contribute.
>> Perhaps we may even be able to influence him toward the Christian faith.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Sat, 12/13/08, George Murphy <GMURPHY10@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> > From: George Murphy <GMURPHY10@neo.rr.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [asa] Occult crankery and the vitality of our email list
>> > To: asa@calvin.edu
>> > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 6:24 AM
>> > I agree but there's a weak point in this plan. It
>> > requires all the
>> > relatively sensible people on the list to ignore the troll.
>> > Unfortunately
>> > not all list participants recognize the damage that the
>> > loony stuff does &
>> > sometimes new participants come on who aren't aware of
>> > the history. & as
>> > long as a troll can get an occasional trollee, he/she will
>> > keep at it.
>> >
>> > Shalom
>> > George
>> > http://home.neo.rr.com/scitheologyglm
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "David Opderbeck"
>> > <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
>> > To: "Stephen Matheson"
>> > <smatheso@calvin.edu>
>> > Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
>> > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 11:06 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [asa] Occult crankery and the vitality of our
>> > email list
>> >
>> >
>> > > The best way to handle a troll is to ignore it. They
>> > get stronger
>> > > with attention. This truth, BTW, is revealed in the
>> > fifth Harry
>> > > Potter movie.
>> > >
>> > > David W. Opderbeck
>> > > Associate Professor of Law
>> > > Seton Hall University Law School
>> > > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Stephen Matheson
>> > <smatheso@calvin.edu>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >> Well, it seems to me that this is an opportunity
>> > to discuss the
>> > >> guidelines
>> > >> we do and don't have for behavior on the email
>> > list.
>> > >>
>> > >> Right now, a person can be removed from the list
>> > (for a time, at least)
>> > >> for
>> > >> various kinds of obnoxious behavior. A committee
>> > of three excellent
>> > >> people
>> > >> is responsible for making such a decision, and I
>> > think that every
>> > >> expulsion
>> > >> is announced along with a brief rationale.
>> > >>
>> > >> Now as far as I know, the infractions that can get
>> > a person removed all
>> > >> involve rudeness or aggression or other
>> > inappropriate behavior that is
>> > >> deemed counterproductive to discussion and
>> > dialogue -- but the
>> > >> advancement
>> > >> of the occult or the advocacy of various forms of
>> > divination are
>> > >> apparently
>> > >> tolerated. So we've had, over the years,
>> > George Hammond's ravings and
>> > >> Vernon Jenkins' occult numerology. Now we
>> > have Mr. McCray advancing the
>> > >> "ideas" of a sci-fi cult that has
>> > concocted fantastical tales with
>> > >> plainly
>> > >> racist (and sexist) overtones, built on
>> > mid-20th-century crackpot
>> > >> pseudoscience.
>> > >>
>> > >> I wonder: what should we do? I'm personally
>> > undecided: on principle, I'm
>> > >> opposed to banning anyone for anything other than
>> > malicious disruption of
>> > >> our discourse. Ideally, we would discourage such
>> > crankery by creating an
>> > >> unfruitful environment for its propagation;
>> > specifically, we would ignore
>> > >> Vernon and his ilk, and only limit participation
>> > if it came to resemble
>> > >> spamming. But that's not how things tend to
>> > go, and I think we might be
>> > >> underestimating the damage that engagement with
>> > nonsense can do to the
>> > >> quality and level of participation of our list.
>> > In othe words, visitors
>> > >> who
>> > >> see a post by Mr. McCray could reasonably conclude
>> > that our forum is just
>> > >> another mosh-pit of vague supernaturalism.
>> > Ongoing interaction with
>> > >> bizarre
>> > >> cultic lunacy is surely as unhealthy as regular
>> > spasms of name-calling or
>> > >> crass insults.
>> > >>
>> > >> And yet the banning of unusual ideas, or even the
>> > impression of such, is
>> > >> not
>> > >> a good thing either.
>> > >>
>> > >> Can we talk?
>> > >>
>> > >> Steve Matheson
>> > >>
>> > >>>>> "Michael McCray"
>> > <momcmd3@gmail.com> 12/12/08 8:44 PM >>>
>> > >>
>> > >> Hello.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> I am acquainted with a book that deals with the
>> > subject matter of many of
>> > >> the ASA discussions. It has been very helpful to
>> > me in "solving" the very
>> > >> questions that you are so interested in. It is a
>> > book of religion,
>> > >> philosophy and science, composed of many papers,
>> > written by multiple
>> > >> authors
>> > >> in the 1930's and published by the Urantia
>> > Foundation in 1955 as The
>> > >> Urantia
>> > >> Book. You can read it on line at www.uranita.org.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> There are several papers on evolution, the
>> > evolution of man, the
>> > >> development
>> > >> of primitive religion. George Murphy you might be
>> > interested in these,
>> > >> they
>> > >> give examples of primitive cultures form the early
>> > twentieth century to
>> > >> highlight milestones in primitive religions. They
>> > also show how primitive
>> > >> religion and revelation have formed the amalgams
>> > of the modern religions
>> > >> in
>> > >> our world today.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> In the Urantia description there was a first pair
>> > of humans about one
>> > >> million years ago. The mutations that brought
>> > about the six colored races
>> > >> took place about five hundred thousand years ago.
>> > The Planetary Prince
>> > >> arrived about the same time along with one hundred
>> > incarnated assistants.
>> > >> When that Prince subsequently rebelled, his
>> > assistants who were unloyal
>> > >> to
>> > >> the Father became mortal. This was the origin of
>> > the Nodites.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Adam and Eve were Material Sons sent as biologic
>> > uplifters when human
>> > >> evolution had reached it peak. They were
>> > incarnated about 36,000 years
>> > >> ago.
>> > >> In all there have been nine races of humans on our
>> > world; two of these
>> > >> have
>> > >> superhuman origins.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> I was introduced to the Urantia Book thirty years
>> > ago. It is the most
>> > >> unusual book that I have ever read and I am
>> > convinced it is not the best
>> > >> book of religious science fiction ever written but
>> > exactly what it claims
>> > >> to
>> > >> be the fifth epochal revelation of God to the
>> > people of earth.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Michael McCray
>> > >
>> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu
>> > with
>> > > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of
>> > the message
>> > >
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>> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
>> > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the
>> > message.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
>> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>>
>
> Hello
>
>
>
> I am not trawling for members to join some cult nor do I wish the list to
> devolve to a discussion of the merits and demerits of a certain book. The
> work done by the list is so earnest and the aims of the ASA so important, I
> thought you might be helped with some of the difficulties in this work by a
> book that has helped me with some of the same difficulties. Not to do so
> would be a disservice to you all.
>
>
>
> As a Christian I can only make you aware of the book and urge you to read
> it. It is only then that you will be able to judge it by its fruits. If it
> proclaims the truth of the spirit, then the spirit will witness in your
> hearts that the message is genuine.
>
>
>
> Michael McCray
>

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"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Mon Dec 15 12:43:27 2008

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