Re: [asa] Anti-Creationism Lecture

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Sun Dec 14 2008 - 13:23:12 EST


Are you saying that TE explains the virgin birth and resurrection of Jesus

Thanks and Best Regards,
David Clounch

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:49 AM, <> wrote:

> Dick,
> Thanks for this poignant and thoughtful observation. That really puts this
> holiday season in perspective by reminding me just how much I have to be
> thankful for and how valuable the true meaning of Christmas really is.
> It is true that the world has rejected what they need most but in part it
> is because we have forced them to by allowing the YEC mafia to take over the
> evangelical church and drive this wedge into them between science and faith.
> The assurance of evolution being true and creationism being false is the
> only hope that most of these in the world with any educaton have. At least
> that is something that their instinctive spiritual discernment abilities
> have led them to.
> But it is without joy for them because they perceive that their options are
> only either/or and don't know that they can still hold on to their
> intellectual truths and still be an intellectually fulfilled Christian at
> the same time. This is what we have to fix by presenting a gospel to them
> that is consistent with the truths that has already been revealed to them
> instead of at war with them.
> We need more like McGrath and Collins and miller who risk their repuatation
> and career to take a bold stand with their faith to help reach these
> disenfrancised intellectuals. And we need honest and smart evangelical
> churches where these new converts can find a spiritual home and where the
> dangers of strict concordant literalism is guarded against and repudiated.
> In short, it is coming down to TE'ers to save Christianity. I know this
> sounds delusional but I think an integrated science/faith worldview is going
> to be central to the next wave of Christian revival simply because that is
> the battleground that the enemy has chosen to discredit Christianity on and
> therefore the new standard that God is raising up. Once we cleanse the
> household of faith of all our spiritual pride and self-righteousness and
> idolatry, then we will be in a position to call out Dawkins on his own.
> I am optimistic to hear of new political leaders that claim Christian faith
> outside of the traditional confines of these backward beliefs.
> In order for us ever to be effective against Dawkins and his ilk, we are
> going to have to switch our game up on them a little bit. The status quo is
> too easy to discredit and dismiss. I pray with you that together we can
> help affect this much needed change.
> And happy holidays!
> Thanks
> John
> Dick Fischer wrote:
> > This afternoon I attended a lecture
> > on Creationism at the National Science Foundation facility in Arlington ,
> VA. It was sponsored by the National Capital
> > Area Skeptics. Frankly, it was a
> > delightful, witty presentation by a retired anthropologist who had been
> > associated with the Smithsonian and had taught at George Mason University
> . She knew the arguments and weaknesses of
> > creationism and the only mistake I heard her make was she showed a
> picture of
> > Duane Gish and thought he had already died. (I sent her an email and
> told her to
> > delete that part of his resume.
> >
> > I remember thinking as I was riding the Metro to Arlington that it was
> > odd to hold this kind of lecture so close to Christmas. Also, what with
> shopping and stuff how
> > would you get an audience? I was
> > amazed that the lecture room at the NSF was packed with only a few chairs
> > vacant. But what struck me even
> > more were the people who attended.
> > We have all looked out over church audiences and seen smiling faces,
> friends
> > sitting together, couples and families.
> > Of the some 200 or so who were there I saw no two arrive together. No
> husbands and wives. No children. No smiles.
> >
> > Richard Leakey in the prologue to his book Origins Reconsidered ,
> referring to the question and answer
> > sessions that close his public lectures, wrote: "The audiences that come
> > to hear me are, I often feel, seeking a kind of reassurance." And
> that's what I saw today in the
> > faces of those who came out to hear a lecture on evolution twelve days
> before
> > Christmas. Faces that
> > were sad, lonely, isolated, detached, and looking for that kind of
> > assurance. They were putting their
> > faith in science but their faces told a revealing story.
> >
> > Riding the Metro back home gave me time to answer my own
> > question. Of course, this was
> > Christmas time, a joyous time for believers, and this audience was
> largely made
> > up of non-believers. They needed
> > something, you could see it in their faces, but they had already rejected
> what
> > they needed most.
> >
> > Dick Fischer, GPA president
> > Genesis Proclaimed Association
> > "Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and
> > History"
> >
> >
> >
> To unsubscribe, send a message to with
> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.

To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Sun Dec 14 13:25:10 2008

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Sun Dec 14 2008 - 13:25:10 EST