Re: [asa] Occult crankery and the vitality of our email list

From: John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Dec 13 2008 - 19:03:21 EST

This all seems a little harsh to me. If you recall Michael McCray debuted on the list recently with a very thoughtful email that stimulated a lot of very interesting discussion. I was as dissapointed as you were to get this email this morning because it seems such a shame for someone with so much potential fall into this type of deception.

But remember almost all of us here came out of some deception before we found our way here. I suggest that before we jump to these final measures, possibly we give Mike the benefit of the doubt and point out the boundaries of the list are the intersection of science and Christian theology and see if will respect that and possibly he may be able to still contribute. Perhaps we may even be able to influence him toward the Christian faith.

Thanks

John

--- On Sat, 12/13/08, George Murphy <GMURPHY10@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> From: George Murphy <GMURPHY10@neo.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [asa] Occult crankery and the vitality of our email list
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 6:24 AM
> I agree but there's a weak point in this plan. It
> requires all the
> relatively sensible people on the list to ignore the troll.
> Unfortunately
> not all list participants recognize the damage that the
> loony stuff does &
> sometimes new participants come on who aren't aware of
> the history. & as
> long as a troll can get an occasional trollee, he/she will
> keep at it.
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://home.neo.rr.com/scitheologyglm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Opderbeck"
> <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
> To: "Stephen Matheson"
> <smatheso@calvin.edu>
> Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 11:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Occult crankery and the vitality of our
> email list
>
>
> > The best way to handle a troll is to ignore it. They
> get stronger
> > with attention. This truth, BTW, is revealed in the
> fifth Harry
> > Potter movie.
> >
> > David W. Opderbeck
> > Associate Professor of Law
> > Seton Hall University Law School
> > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Stephen Matheson
> <smatheso@calvin.edu>
> > wrote:
> >> Well, it seems to me that this is an opportunity
> to discuss the
> >> guidelines
> >> we do and don't have for behavior on the email
> list.
> >>
> >> Right now, a person can be removed from the list
> (for a time, at least)
> >> for
> >> various kinds of obnoxious behavior. A committee
> of three excellent
> >> people
> >> is responsible for making such a decision, and I
> think that every
> >> expulsion
> >> is announced along with a brief rationale.
> >>
> >> Now as far as I know, the infractions that can get
> a person removed all
> >> involve rudeness or aggression or other
> inappropriate behavior that is
> >> deemed counterproductive to discussion and
> dialogue -- but the
> >> advancement
> >> of the occult or the advocacy of various forms of
> divination are
> >> apparently
> >> tolerated. So we've had, over the years,
> George Hammond's ravings and
> >> Vernon Jenkins' occult numerology. Now we
> have Mr. McCray advancing the
> >> "ideas" of a sci-fi cult that has
> concocted fantastical tales with
> >> plainly
> >> racist (and sexist) overtones, built on
> mid-20th-century crackpot
> >> pseudoscience.
> >>
> >> I wonder: what should we do? I'm personally
> undecided: on principle, I'm
> >> opposed to banning anyone for anything other than
> malicious disruption of
> >> our discourse. Ideally, we would discourage such
> crankery by creating an
> >> unfruitful environment for its propagation;
> specifically, we would ignore
> >> Vernon and his ilk, and only limit participation
> if it came to resemble
> >> spamming. But that's not how things tend to
> go, and I think we might be
> >> underestimating the damage that engagement with
> nonsense can do to the
> >> quality and level of participation of our list.
> In othe words, visitors
> >> who
> >> see a post by Mr. McCray could reasonably conclude
> that our forum is just
> >> another mosh-pit of vague supernaturalism.
> Ongoing interaction with
> >> bizarre
> >> cultic lunacy is surely as unhealthy as regular
> spasms of name-calling or
> >> crass insults.
> >>
> >> And yet the banning of unusual ideas, or even the
> impression of such, is
> >> not
> >> a good thing either.
> >>
> >> Can we talk?
> >>
> >> Steve Matheson
> >>
> >>>>> "Michael McCray"
> <momcmd3@gmail.com> 12/12/08 8:44 PM >>>
> >>
> >> Hello.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am acquainted with a book that deals with the
> subject matter of many of
> >> the ASA discussions. It has been very helpful to
> me in "solving" the very
> >> questions that you are so interested in. It is a
> book of religion,
> >> philosophy and science, composed of many papers,
> written by multiple
> >> authors
> >> in the 1930's and published by the Urantia
> Foundation in 1955 as The
> >> Urantia
> >> Book. You can read it on line at www.uranita.org.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There are several papers on evolution, the
> evolution of man, the
> >> development
> >> of primitive religion. George Murphy you might be
> interested in these,
> >> they
> >> give examples of primitive cultures form the early
> twentieth century to
> >> highlight milestones in primitive religions. They
> also show how primitive
> >> religion and revelation have formed the amalgams
> of the modern religions
> >> in
> >> our world today.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In the Urantia description there was a first pair
> of humans about one
> >> million years ago. The mutations that brought
> about the six colored races
> >> took place about five hundred thousand years ago.
> The Planetary Prince
> >> arrived about the same time along with one hundred
> incarnated assistants.
> >> When that Prince subsequently rebelled, his
> assistants who were unloyal
> >> to
> >> the Father became mortal. This was the origin of
> the Nodites.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Adam and Eve were Material Sons sent as biologic
> uplifters when human
> >> evolution had reached it peak. They were
> incarnated about 36,000 years
> >> ago.
> >> In all there have been nine races of humans on our
> world; two of these
> >> have
> >> superhuman origins.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I was introduced to the Urantia Book thirty years
> ago. It is the most
> >> unusual book that I have ever read and I am
> convinced it is not the best
> >> book of religious science fiction ever written but
> exactly what it claims
> >> to
> >> be the fifth epochal revelation of God to the
> people of earth.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Michael McCray
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu
> with
> > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of
> the message
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the
> message.

      

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Sat Dec 13 19:03:53 2008

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Sat Dec 13 2008 - 19:03:53 EST