Re: [asa] red in truth and claw?

From: George Murphy <GMURPHY10@neo.rr.com>
Date: Thu Dec 11 2008 - 20:44:02 EST

Two responses to the YEC challenges to evolution based on the suffering &
death involved in natural selection:

1) Deal with it. The overwhelming evidence is that evolution has happened
& that natural selection is a major factor in it.

2) God becomes a participant in the process & suffers & gets killed because
of it.

The latter is not a neat explanation of why God creates that way & it
doesn't prove that God is justified in doing so. It simply says that God's
in it with us. If that's incompatible with your idea of God then your idea
of God needs to change.

Shalom
George
http://home.neo.rr.com/scitheologyglm

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Walley" <john_walley@yahoo.com>
To: "_American Sci Affil" <asa@calvin.edu>; "Loren Haarsma"
<lhaarsma@calvin.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] red in truth and claw?

> Loren,
>
> I appreciate what you are trying to do here and it may be effective in the
> church, but I don't think this would convince the more hardened or
> cynical. It seems you are just redefining evolution in an idealistic sense
> to focus only on adaptation leave out the unsavory parts like the
> competition.
>
> For instance, to use your turtle analogy, yes it is beautiful that some
> with certain genes can find new island food better and blossom into a new
> species, but what if the new food they found were the eggs of other
> species of existing island turtles till it drove them into extinction? Is
> this still as beautiful? This is in reality how evolution often works.
>
> This is why I say we have to have to face the ugly fact that life is a
> struggle and we all have to fight against nature to survive. Softening
> this for the more gullible is still a shallow victory.
>
> Becoming a TE really drove this point home to me as it appears to be how
> God intended it all along. In contrast YEC implies that those competitive
> survival impulses are primitive and "unchristian", and it is easy to infer
> a passive spiritual worldview where we all ought to just love one another
> all the time. I think this is does a disservice to Christians as it is not
> consistent with the real world we have to live in.
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/11/08, Loren Haarsma <lhaarsma@calvin.edu> wrote:
>
>> From: Loren Haarsma <lhaarsma@calvin.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [asa] red in truth and claw?
>> To: "_American Sci Affil" <asa@calvin.edu>
>> Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 7:22 PM
>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008, Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>>
>> > Just wondering how evolutionists on this discussion
>> group might respond.
>>
>> http://www.faithaliveresources.org/origins/downloads/Origins_chap08_art02_evolution.pdf
>> http://www.faithaliveresources.org/origins/downloads/Origins_chap13_art14_goodness.pdf
>>
>> Loren
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
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>> message.
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
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Received on Thu Dec 11 20:45:38 2008

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