Re: [asa] red in truth and claw?

From: Jim Armstrong <>
Date: Thu Dec 11 2008 - 18:24:37 EST
Just to elaborate a little, and perhaps offer another starting point (recognizing that Denis L. would be capable of speaking better to this), our mouths might be another starting point. Either we were created with omnivores' teeth and guts, or we evolved that way. Either way, there is an implication of "red tooth and claw" in our very state of being in Creation. By and large, we do have social/moral issues with consuming one another, but we are not so much troubled by dropping down the food chain a link or two to reap the benefits of the energy and nutrients stored up in biological forms BOTH animal and vegetable. But this extends as well down the chain to the way-smaller forms of life as well which are nurtured within our bodies if beneficial, or exterminated by antibiotics (anti-biotics, i.e., kill them nasty bio-things) if they give us discomfort.

From a slightly different perspective, in fact we could not survive, or even be born without the ingesting and processing of energy stored in bio forms, which energy storage is intrinsic to what they are and do as nothing else in nature does. We require that concentrated/stored energy to live, and that somehow links us inevitably to the "red in tooth and claw". Is that a bad thing even for us, then?

Yes, and I agree that this is inevitably tied to the theodicy question, which isn't really much of a question in my mind any more.

JimA [Friend of ASA] wrote:
Quoting gordon brown <Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>:

I agree with Jim's response and would add that Psalm 104 praises God for 
His good creation. For what that includes note verses 21 and 29.

Gordon Brown (ASA member)


Excellent passages, Gordon.   And with my YEC hat on, I would have no
counter-response to answer with.  As well as Psalm 139:13  (you knit me together
in my mother's womb)  for the continued creative action of God working through
mediated & recognized processes.  

And all of this isn't to answer any of these questions, of course; but to simply
acknowledge that they remain as troubling for YECs as they do for TEs or any
other theologians.  But I think it important, Bernie, to be able to answer with
Scripture instead of with science.  That will be your common ground.


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