RE: [asa] promise trumps biology (off-topic)

From: Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
Date: Wed Dec 10 2008 - 11:45:07 EST

Sorry- should have modified the subject line. I think that would solve it.

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of George Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:37 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] promise trumps biology

I wonder if anyone else has noticed what's happened to this thread. I
started it to point out what seemed to be a point of some theological
significance, that concerns about biological exclusivity have lower priority
than God's promise. There are a number of ways a discussion about that
could go - e.g., how important is it that the Messiah be the biological
descendant of David (Mk.12:35-37 & parallels). Instead the discussion
rather quickly morphed into one about the historical accuracy of the flood
story - debated here for perhaps the 1000th time.

Is there any way we can expand our discussions beyond Gen.1-11? Or should
that be declared the official canon within the canon of the asa list?

Shalom
George
http://home.neo.rr.com/scitheologyglm

----- Original Message -----
From: "George Cooper" <georgecooper@sbcglobal.net>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: [asa] promise trumps biology

> Bernie,
>
> 2 Peter 3 does not say "whole world", regardless of which Bible version
> selected. This phrase, however, is used a number of times in the NT.
> But
> even these do not necessarily refer to the entire globe, but rather the
> whole known world, apparently.
>
> Consider...
>
> Rm 1:8 "First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your
> faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."
>
> That makes sense if it is in the context of those in the known world, and
> not every human on the planet.
>
>
> The use of "world" in the 16th century was often used to refer to the
> cosmos
> or universe. Copernicus used it many times in his de Revolutionibus.
>
> Coope
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:52 PM
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: RE: [asa] promise trumps biology
>
> Gordon Brown said:
> " There are problems with proof texting when one uses an English
> translation. The English may be more clear-cut than the original. In the
> Biblical languages the same word is used for land and earth."
>
> RE:
> 2 Peter 3:
> 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
>
> Here it says the whole "world."
>
> Strong's says this:
> http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2889&t=KJV
>
> None of those options (in the definition by Strongs) involve a partial
> covering of the Earth.
>
> Literally, I think it is clear Peter meant the whole world. I think he
> was
> wrong, because he didn't have the luxury of science as we do now, to know
> that the whole Earth was never flooded.
>
> I don't see the relevance of your mentioning Deut. 2;25- you'll need to
> explain more fully. I think they meant the world as they knew it, in that
> passage.
>
> My point wasn't to argue the flood. My point was that Dick said that
> George
> didn't believe Moses, so it appeared to me the same charge could be
> leveled
> at Dick himself. I'm sure Moses thought the flood was worldwide, and
> wrote
> as such. If Moses (and Peter) thought the flood was local, he sure was a
> super lousy communicator!
>
> ...Bernie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of gordon brown
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:29 PM
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: RE: [asa] promise trumps biology
>
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>
>> RE:
>> Genesis
> 6:17<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=6&verse=17&versi
> on=31&context=verse>
>> I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under
>> the
> heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on
> earth will perish.
>>
>> Genesis
> 9:11<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=9&verse=11&versi
> on=31&context=verse>
>> I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by
> the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the
> earth."
>>
>> 2 Peter 3:
>> 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
> 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire,
> being
> kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
>>
>
> There are problems with proof texting when one uses an English
> translation. The English may be more clear-cut than the original. In the
> Biblical languages the same word is used for land and earth. In Greek the
> word world (cosmos) is not the same as the physical earth (ge). For how
> much of the earth might be meant by under heaven, see Deuteronomy 2:25.
>
> Gordon Brown (ASA member)
>
>
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Received on Wed Dec 10 11:45:19 2008

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