RE: [asa] promise trumps biology

From: Dehler, Bernie <>
Date: Tue Dec 09 2008 - 13:11:55 EST

Dick said:
"You even question the Bible writers? Moses didn't know anything either?"

Then Dick said:
"I've said this all along, the flood was local, recent, and limited in those who died in it."

Dick, it looks to me like you are questioning George because he doesn't take the Bible literally, then you demonstrate you also don't take it literally, because Moses wrote that ALL life on the Earth was wiped out.... Everything that had breath in its lungs. Aren't you being inconsistent? You know the plain reading is that the entire Earth was flooded- also interpreted that way by the Apostle in 2 Peter.

Dick, you also said:
"Is everybody in Nebraska related to me?"

The answer is yes, if you think we all descended from an apelike creature (modern evolution). The answer is no if you think Adam was made special-he would then not be related to anyone else biologically if humans evolved except the descendents of Adam & Eve..

Genesis 6:17<>
I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.

Genesis 9:11<>
I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth."

2 Peter 3:
6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

From: [] On Behalf Of Dick Fischer
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:51 AM
To: 'George Murphy'
Subject: RE: [asa] promise trumps biology

Hi George:

Was Josephus an historian? Did he not write about the history of the Jews? Did he not write about Noah and his descendants? How do you know Jewish history better than Josephus? You even question the Bible writers? Moses didn't know anything either?

Of course Egypt was populated for thousands of years before the flood. That was my point. Egypt was also populated after the 2900 BC flood by Mizraim and his sons. In Josephus' words: "Now all the sons of Mizraim, being eight in number, occupied the country from Gaza to Egypt ..." Note that Josephus did not say they were the sole occupants. My grandparents left Europe and occupied Nebraska. Is everybody in Nebraska related to me?

Historically Mizraim was recorded as Msrm in Ugaritic, Misri in the Amarna tablets, Musur in Assyrian inscriptions, and Musri to the Babylonians. An Arabian presence is also possible, even in Northern Syria; Tiglath-Pileser I appointed a governor not far distant in Musri in north Arabia. Further, Sargon called Pir'u Sar Musri a king who was succeeded by Samsieh, queen of Arabia. Mizraim's sons are listed (Gen. 10:13-14) beginning with Ludim, the old tribe Lewatah, referred to as Lubiim by Josephus. The A-na-mi is found in a geographical text from the time of Sargon II which may be linked with Anamim, Mizraim's second son Lehabim and Naphtuhim are recalled in 1 Chron. 1:11, grouped with their brothers, presumably in Egypt The people of Pathros[i] in Upper Egypt are credited to Pathrusim, and Casluhim is known primarily for fathering the Philistines. With the exception of the Philistines, the rest of Mizraim's sons leave only sparse traces in various parts of Egypt.

I've said this all along, the flood was local, recent, and limited in those who died in it. And nearly every one of Noah's descendants can be traced to parts of the Near East, northern Africa, along the Mediterranean Sea and so forth, whereas none can be traced to China, southern Africa, Australia, Americas, etc.

What's to not understand?

Dick Fischer, GPA president
Genesis Proclaimed Association
"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"<>

-----Original Message-----
From: George Murphy []
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:59 AM
To: Dick Fischer
Subject: Re: [asa] promise trumps biology

IMO this just shows the limits of your particular version of concordism. Of course not all the people of Egypt were descendants of an historical "Ham" - in fact the known history of Egypt predates by millennia any possible "historical Noah." But as far as the biblical writers are concerned Egypt was populated after the flood by the descendants of one of Noah's grandsons.

----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Fischer<>
To: 'George Murphy'<>
Cc: ASA<>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:48 AM
Subject: RE: [asa] promise trumps biology

Hi George, you wrote:

>>& later in Genesis Joseph is married to an Egyptian, of the "cursed line of Ham."<<

Well maybe, and maybe not. Although the Hebrew word for Egyptian is "Mizraim" (Noah's grandson) it would not be possible for the entire Egyptian population to have stemmed from him. Narmer was in power in Egypt before Mizraim was born. Pyramids depicted four distinct races living in Egypt and the great races were established long before Noah.

Excavations in Egypt have uncovered the remains of a variant race of peoples who began moving in at the beginning of the dynastic period (ca. 2900 BC).

Quoting The Cambridge Ancient History, "Physically these peoples differed unmistakably from the predynastic Egyptians: whereas the latter were unusually small in stature and possessed long and narrow skulls (about 132 mm. in breadth), the newcomers were more massively built and their skulls (about 139 mm. in width) were appreciably broader than those of their predecessors."

So whether that Egyptian woman was of Semitic (or Hamitic) origin will forever be unknown.

Dick Fischer, GPA president

Genesis Proclaimed Association

"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"<>


[i]. The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, 3, 676.

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Received on Tue Dec 9 13:13:30 2008

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