RE: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (Cheek turning)

From: Dehler, Bernie <>
Date: Mon Oct 27 2008 - 13:37:53 EDT

Vernon said, RE: DNA evidence for evolution:
"Why, in your view, does it _so positively_ rule out the
Bible-honouring doctrine of 'abrupt appearance'?"

I pretty much agree with Iain's response, but will add my own thoughts.

I think the best evidence for evolution, that man came from an apelike creature and was not abruptly made by fiat, is pseudogenes. The book by Hugh Ross in "Who was Adam" has a good section on details on this (Ross is old earth and rejects evolution, but admits they have no response to the pseudogene argument). An example (in the book by Ross) is the pseudogene for an enzyme to create vitamin c (asorbic acid). Lower life forms have it, so they make their own vitamin c. Apes and humans have a corrupted version, so we can't make it and need to get vitamin c from our diet. Why would the fall curse humans and apes (by messing up this gene) but not other animals?

A corrupted copy is proof that material was borrowed from elsewhere. For example, I think (memory could be faulty) Intel once sued another company claiming that they copied Intel's computer chip microcode. The other company denied it. Problem is, Intel had bugs in their code, and the other maker copied the bugs- proof it wasn't created uniquely. The DNA code proves evolution in the same way... errors are copied across genomes. I heard a rumor that some products purposely put in errors (which don't affect function) or unique things so they can catch competitors who copy- not sure if true.

As for CS Lewis and evolution, read the last chapter in "Mere Christianity" and tell me what you think. Before I accepted evolution, it sort of bugged me. After accepting evolution, I think it is brilliant.


-----Original Message-----
From: Vernon Jenkins []
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:11 AM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Subject: Re: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (Cheek turning)

Hi Bernie,

Can you explain to one who, for good reasons, questions the whole
evolutionary scenario why DNA " the most solid evidence against YEC and
for evolution." ? Why, in your view, does it _so positively_ rule out the
Bible-honouring doctrine of 'abrupt appearance' ?

Again, you appear to imply that C.S. Lewis was an evolutionist. This
suggestion is of course untrue. In "C.S Lewis: The Authentic Voice",
William Griffin writes (p.222 - commenting on the final 1944 BBC series talk
to which you refer) "He didn't say he believed in evolution or knew it to be
fact, but it was a working theory that proved a point."



----- Original Message -----
From: "Dehler, Bernie" <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 4:44 AM
Subject: RE: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (Cheek turning)

> Iain said: "Isn't one supposed to "turn the other cheek"?"
> Yes- and this is a perfect example. Others (Biblical or not): "Do not
> repay evil for evil." "Eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind."
> Also- guarding speech per 1 Peter 4:11 (a verse I teach my kids about
> watching their mouth).
> As for YEC's who hop to other topics... that's ok. That's their way of
> recognizing they have nothing else to say on that sub-topic. Why not take
> that as a positive sign of one barrier removed and yes, lets move on to
> the next barrier?
> I think another key is in what to expect. Don't expect them to say "Oh, I
> see, I give up on YEC and now beliece as you." It takes a lot of time and
> reflection. If it didn't, it would probably reflect that they are shallow
> thinkers. If they could be easily turned- they could also be easily
> flipped-back.
> I've recently been confronting fellow believers at the Christian group in
> my workplace. They are likely shocked that I accept evolution, and I'm
> shocked of their YEC leanings. I thought they were at least OEC's or
> OEC-friendly. We start on all the basics- fossils, DNA, etc. I try to
> steer them esp. into the DNA area because I think it is the most solid
> evidence against YEC and for evolution. I've been introducing them to
> Francis Collins and his book, and even CS Lewis (who they know, but are
> clueless about Lewis' evolution-leaning- see his last chapter in "Mere
> Christianity" which I think it brilliant and insightful- deeply touching
> me).
> ...Bernie

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Received on Mon Oct 27 13:38:42 2008

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