RE: [asa] Predestination, free-will, and 10+ dimensions

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Date: Wed Oct 22 2008 - 21:17:53 EDT

Finally some meat. I see 3 points - will reply to all. Just to let you know I'm not ignoring you.  :)  -------------- Original message from "Dick Fischer" <>: --------------

James wrote:

>>And that is one thing I like about RTB's Testable Creation Model. They don't insist it is the one true solution. It's a model. Subject to revisions.

And so far, it seems to be a pretty good model. I think the anti-evolutionist impression is based on the fact that evolution has some pretty big gaps. You can have faith in God that there will come a "natural" explanation for those gaps, meanwhile, I'm going with the model that best explains the data. :)<<

James, obviously you have no allergic reaction to smoke and mirrors.  The following is lifted from their web site.
Many factors work to limit large animals' capacity for natural-process change. These same factors make large animals especially vulnerable to rapid extinction. The seven most significant factors are these: their relatively small population levels their long generation spans (the time between birth and the ability to give birth) their low numbers of progeny produced per adult their high complexity of morphology and biochemistry their enormous body sizes their specialized food supplies their relatively advanced cultural and social structures
These factors limit the capacity of animals not only to change through natural selection and mutations but also to adapt to environmental changes. A fundamental problem biologists observe is that deleterious mutations vastly outnumber beneficial mutations (by anywhere from 10,000 to 1 up to 10,000,000 to 1). Thus, a species needs an enormous population, a short generation time, and a small body size if it's to survive long enough to benefit from mutations. Deleterious mutations and environmental stresses drive most animal species to extinction.
Crude mathematical models indicate that a species capable of significant evolutionary advance rather than doomed to eventual extinction, must have a population of one quadrillion individuals, a generation time of three months, and a body size of one centimeter. These conclusions are confirmed by field observations.
        (What about sharks, alligators, whales?)
Genesis offers this explanation for the survival of large animals: God repeatedly replaced extinct species with new ones. In most cases, the new species were different from the previous ones because God was changing Earth's geology, biodeposits, and biology, step by step, in preparation for His ultimate creation on Earth—the human race.
    (I missed that chapter in Genesis on repeated animal extinction.  Can anybody cite it?)
The many "transitional" forms seen in the fossil record suggest that God performed more than just a few creative acts here and there, letting natural evolution fill in the rest. Rather, God was involved and active in creation of new species.
    (Note that YECs declare the lack of transitional fossils as proof of creation.  Here we see that "many transitional forms" prove creation.  It is obvious that to a creationist anything proves creation.)
This argument has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese!  Deleterious mutations can be inconsequential or in the vast majority of instances render a single individual unsuitable for reproduction and it is eliminated from the gene pool.  Ross seems to think that mutations infect the entire population.  Some can, most do not.  Plus, what he calls a "creation model" is no such thing.  What happened between man and ape, for example?  Specifically, how did God create man with many of the same genetic markers found in our brachiating cousins?  What's the model?  Then after positing no model at all he "tests" it?
The unique beauty of this biblical creation model is its ability to predict with accuracy advancing scientific discovery. This ability to predict is the hallmark of any reliable theory. By contrast, Darwinian evolution, chaos theory, and six-consecutive-24-hour-creation-day creationism fail to predict and instead contradict the growing body of data. This summary lists just 20 of the numerous successful predictions made by the Reasons To Believe model. transcendent creation event cosmic fine-tuning fine-tuning of the earth's, solar system's, and Milky Way Galaxy's characteristics rapidity of life's origin lack of inorganic kerogen extreme biomolecular complexity Cambrian explosion missing horizontal branches in the fossil record placement and frequency of "transitional forms" in the fossil record fossil record reversal frequency and extent of mass extinctions recovery from mass extinctions duration of time windows for different species frequency, extent, and repetition of symbiosis frequency, extent, and repetition of altruism speciation and extinction rates recent origin of humanity huge biodeposits Genesis' perfect fit with the fossil record molecular clock rates
What kind of tests are these?  Take any of them.  How does his "model," which is based upon Genesis, predict the "frequency and extent of mass extinctions," or "molecular clock rates"?  What's the chapter and verse on those items?
Dick Fischer, GPA president
Genesis Proclaimed Association
"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"\


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Received on Wed Oct 22 21:18:38 2008

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