Re: [asa] A theology question (imminent return of Christ)

From: Schwarzwald <>
Date: Sat Oct 18 2008 - 01:53:25 EDT

Heya, Jack.

Respectfully, I don't think this is being made "more complicated than it
is". I think there's a danger in oversimplifying as well, especially when -
frankly - there's little to go on with regards to Christ Himself. We do see
Christ saying clearly that the hour and day is not known. The only
mitigation against that uncertainty is a reference to 'this generation' -
and what a generation meant in such a context is its own issue. Paul talking
about not everyone sleeping but being changed doesn't read to me (and I
would guess many others) the way it does to you.

For myself, I'm not advocating preterism, partial-preterism, or any other
variant. But I do disagree with the view Bernie was advancing with apparent
certainty, while I can respect (and am interested in) other religious
readings and understandings.

On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Jack Syme <> wrote:

> Yes Jesus did not know the day and the hour. But he knew that it was going
> to be within several months to several years.
> This is very clear, "this generation" and "some here shall not sleep" are
> very clear time statements that Christ expected the fulfillment of his work,
> (his return, the end of the age, the beginning of the age to come) within a
> lifetime of when he made those statements.
> Dont make this more complicated than it is.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordon brown"
> <Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:26 PM
> Subject: RE: [asa] A theology question (imminent return of Christ)
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>> Thanks Edward. I guess you are just helping me be comfortable knowing
>>> there is no clear answer as to how Jesus could have been wrong in teaching
>>> His imminent return. I guess it is just a mystery, like the trinity. Your
>>> CS Lewis quote said it well- very applicable (in some ways).
>> If by imminent you mean during the lifetime of the disciples, I don't know
>> where you find Jesus saying that his return was imminent. Was it what he
>> said in the Olivet discourse about all these things happening before their
>> generation passed away? The disciples' question to which he was responding
>> had three parts, and it is up to the reader to sort out which question each
>> part of the discourse is responding to. He also says that only the Father
>> knows the day and hour of his return.
>> The Olivet discourse mentions many things that must occur before Jesus
>> returns and seems to be warning against assuming that his return will happen
>> before they take place.
>> In John 21 Jesus indicates that Peter will be old when he dies. John also
>> insists that Jesus did not say that John would live until Jesus returns.
>> Acts 1 indicates that prior to Pentecost the disciples had some
>> misconceptions. I Thessalonians 4 may indicate that Paul thought of himself
>> as being included in those who would remain until the Second Coming, but by
>> the time he wrote II Timothy 4 he was convinced otherwise. Also see his
>> comments on eschatology in II Thessalonians 2.
>> Gordon Brown (ASA member)
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Received on Sat Oct 18 01:54:09 2008

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