RE: [asa] lock-picking tools

From: Dehler, Bernie <>
Date: Thu Oct 16 2008 - 13:31:57 EDT

Merv said:
"But being "discovered by a failure" is a bit of a self-contradiction, isn't it? "

I think you are right. As long as we are ever learning and constantly developing new technologies (which is on an exponential growth curve), we can always try a new experiment or create a new hypothesis.


From: [] On Behalf Of Merv
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:16 PM
To: David Campbell;
Subject: Re: [asa] lock-picking tools

David Campbell wrote:

So here is the interesting question for me: Can science find or map its own

"rock wall" boundary or even conclude that such a boundary exists? IDs say, in

principle, YES. ECs say, in principle: NO. And militant atheists say: "no

such boundaries for science exist at all." IDs and ECs (as Christians) should

at least be able to unite in their opposition to the last category and only

differ in how such a boundary can be explicated.

I would say that it is possible in principle that such a boundary

exists. I would tend to draw a semantic line and suggest that such a

boundary would probably be dicovered by the failure of science, rather

than being discovered by science. I would also say that the

ID-proposed ways of detecting boundaries are no good and that

theological and empirical evidence suggests there probably aren't any

gaps requiring unmediated intelligent intervention within the course

of evolution or of forming the universe from big bang to now.

But being "discovered by a failure" is a bit of a self-contradiction, isn't it? It's like saying that I can discover that an indeterminately long road has no road-blocks because I walked along it for a ways and found none. My failure to discover one doesn't establish the non-existence of any roadblocks because I could always walk farther. Given that the entire "domain-space" of possible scientific inquiries qualifies as an "indeterminately long road", failure is inconclusive on this.

I tend to lean your way in thinking that unmediated gaps are at least rare if they exists at all in vast swaths of creative activity of history. But it is speculative either way. And I don't see how scientific tools can avail.


To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Thu Oct 16 13:32:36 2008

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Thu Oct 16 2008 - 13:32:36 EDT