RE: [asa] Conversation with Timaeus, part one

From: James Patterson <>
Date: Thu Sep 25 2008 - 07:39:15 EDT

> My purpose here is to try to bring TE proponents closer together to ID proponents,
> in particular those ID proponents who happen to be Christian.

Very similar to mine. I am a volunteer apologist for Reasons to Believe. However RTB's Testable Creation Model (Old Earth Creationism - OEC or Progressive Creationism - the old term) definitely has issues with CD. The CD issue is why I am here, really. It seems to be a sticking point for many.

> The huge gulf that has opened up between the two groups is unjustified when you consider
> that they both are supposed to share the same Bible, the same traditions of theological
> thought running from antiquity to the present, and the same personal faith.

I personally would like to see ID, TE, and OEC come together. "Christian ID" = OEC in my mind. OEC's definitely support design, just design by God. Once again, the role and extent of natural evolutionary processes vs the role and extent of God's direct (perhaps supernatural) involvement is the issue.

> ID says not that design in nature MUST be detectable, but only that it MAY be detectable

OK, this is a very interesting concept, as evidenced by the extensive discussion. I have ideas about this.

1. If God's design were clearly evident, would we have free will?
2. If God's design were not evident at all, would there be belief in God?*

Given those two points at the ends of the spectrum, I make the case here for the amount of evidence for design we see itself being fine-tuned.

Thus, yes, the cell is beautiful, has lots of miniature machines. But the mechanism for their being built is there too. And when we look at that mechanism - it also clearly appears designed. This then ultimately gets back to the DNA, the ultimate source of information - and we see a balace of design, and evidence for CD present.

You can apply this same argument to the cosmos, with the same result. Is the Big Bang the ultimate evidence for God, or simply the result of random quantum fluctuations that we don't understand yet?


* Belief in God outside the Bible and God telling us in Romans he has written his Word on our heart...of course.

James Patterson, Shreveport

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Received on Thu Sep 25 07:40:06 2008

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