RE: [asa] meteorites in the geologic column

From: George Cooper <>
Date: Mon Sep 22 2008 - 11:58:15 EDT

I agree with George. Any group that proudly makes the Bible laughable is
not acting as good stewards of the Word. [Ignoring St. Augustine's warning
is not a good thing.] Whenever impressionable minds become educated with
honest science, any Biblical presentation that appears as fantasy and
contradictory to their knowledge can only diminish their chances to
receiving salvation. The evidence is overwhelming against many YEC claims,
and in some cases, even they (eg AIG) have changed some of these more
obvious erroneous claims.


Compound this problem with their successful efforts in getting their naive
message out to the public. Their elaborate museum and their efforts to get
laws to allow "creationism" taught in science (eg. Louisiana) is nothing to
sneeze at. I am active in a science forum that has grown to over 40,000
members and it is sad to see just how often "creationists" are mocked. It
is quite difficult to get them to understand that not all "creationists" are




From: [] On
Behalf Of George Murphy
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:21 AM
To: Randy Isaac;
Subject: Re: [asa] meteorites in the geologic column


Randy -


I think we need not, & in fact should not, be quite as nice in dealing with
YEC claims as you suggest. I don't want to be misunderstood - we shouldn't
engage in mudslinging campaigns &c. But ridiculous claims should be called
ridiculous without any euphemisms. (There's a difference, to recall Pauli,
between "wrong" and "not even wrong.") And while ad hominem attacks should
be avoided, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't call attention to the fact
that many YEC practitioners are guilty of one or more of the following -
carelessness about claims, not bothering to check the facts,
misrepresentation of the scientific &/or theological views of those they
oppose, and scientific &/or theological ignorance. & we absolutely should
call attention to such behaviors and those who practice them. We need,
e.g., to be willing to tell people, e.g., "You cannot trust what person X
says about these matters because he/she has a history of demonstrably false
statements about them" - with documentation. & no, we shouldn't add "We're
sure he means well" or some such mollification. You know what the road to
hell is paved with.



----- Original Message -----

From: Randy Isaac <>


Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:56 AM

Subject: Re: [asa] meteorites in the geologic column


Michael wrote:


I agree, Michael, and this is a dilemma, especially for an organization like
ASA. A large number (I presume a majority but we haven't done the study) of
ASA members want to move on to more interesting and productive discussions.
Yet at least a third or so continue to ask about YEC (and ID) issues. If YEC
were a small, low-key minority in the church, we would indeed take a
different view. But it isn't. Burgy keeps saying "YEC has won" and I
understand his point--the ubiquitous teaching of the John MacArthur's and
the like is a rather strong YEC position. Hence, it is part of our
responsibility to calmly and methodically respond, without using ridicule or
sarcasm or ad hominems and the like.


The people I'm most interested in reaching are those who are honestly
seeking but haven't seen or been exposed to other material. Last week a
12-th grader wrote to me asking for help. He wasn't being very successful
with his arguments against evolution on his own blog. He wanted me to
provide him with some definitive arguments that would convince those who
were debating him. After some correspondence, it seems he is only aware of
the standard Christian school curriculum A Beka. I pray that his eyes will
be opened.




What else could one do with the time spent on this type of thing?


How many man/woman hours are spent in refuting YEC?


What I have always found is that if a YEC argument is presented as
plausible, research ALWAYS finds it wanting. That can take a long time.


It also undermines whatever else John Macarthur does. Surely he should check
out the science given to him as well as studying the bible etc?




To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Mon Sep 22 11:58:55 2008

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Mon Sep 22 2008 - 11:58:55 EDT