Re: [asa] Greetings - An introduction

From: David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
Date: Wed Sep 10 2008 - 19:55:06 EDT

Steve, what do you think of Conway Morrs' take on convergence?

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Steve Matheson <smatheso@calvin.edu> wrote:

> John, thanks for sharing this. As others here know, I've been very
> concerned about RTB for some time. Many of their "mistakes" are not so
> easily dismissed as carelessness or ignorance. Rana's repeated
> misrepresentations of the significance of convergence, and Ross' fabrication
> of a wholly bogus historical account of research on non-coding DNA suggest
> to me that at least when they discuss biological evolution they display the
> same ethical incompetence that discredits most creationist apologists.
> Mistakes can be fixed, and doing so is evidence of scientific integrity.
> But I fear that the problem at RTB is much more serious than overconfidence
> in concordism or careless naivete. Their work is, to me, a scandalous
> embarrassment, and not merely because they get so many aspects of
> evolutionary theory wrong.
>
> Steve Matheson
>
> >>> John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com> 09/10/08 6:48 PM >>>
>
> Michael,
>
> I appreciate your sentiment and concern, but as one who has poured his
> heart and soul into this ministry for the last seven years, I did not offer
> these comments without much deliberation and reserve.
>
> And your defense could just as easily be applied to the YECs as well and in
> that case truth has no meaning. This is why I say it is a tragic situtation,
> because they come so close to doing so much good for so many people, but
> then lapse back to making the same mistake they set out to liberate others
> from.
>
> Agreed it is better than many alternatives but I do not feel that is the
> standard we are called to. We are called to Truth.
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/10/08, Michael Roberts <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Michael Roberts <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
> > Subject: Re: [asa] Greetings - An introduction
> > To: john_walley@yahoo.com, "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
> > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 4:37 AM
> > John
> >
> > I agree with you, but feel they are trying to do what is
> > right. I think
> > their rejection of biology etc is determined by a
> > concordist theology.
> >
> > In a sense they are stuck in the 19th century but that is
> > better than some
> > alternatives.
> >
> > I prefer to leave it at that and use whatever useful comes
> > out of RTB and
> > not make any strident criticism as even in my most bolshy
> > moments I don't
> > consider that necessary or fair.
> >
> > Michael
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Walley" <john_walley@yahoo.com>
> > To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>; "Dick
> > Fischer" <dickfischer@verizon.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:06 AM
> > Subject: RE: [asa] Greetings - An introduction
> >
> >
> > >I also used to be an RTB apologist. The final straw for
> > me was also after
> > >reading Collins' book and coming to realize that
> > RTB hadn't been in my
> > >opinion totally honest about the pseudogene evidence
> > for common descent. I
> > >immediately felt betrayed again like with the YECs and
> > that RTB was
> > >committed to ideology instead of truth or science also
> > just like the YECs.
> > >
> > > Further I have come to believe that their strict
> > concordism and dogmatic
> > > stance on inerrancy is simply unworkable and not in
> > line with what I think
> > > God intended for the scriptures. Lastly it doesn't
> > help that Fuz continues
> > > to draw the distinction between belief in design and
> > evolution in his
> > > latest book.
> > >
> > > This is truly a shame since I have seen God use RTB
> > mightily in my life
> > > personally as well as in the lives of many in our
> > local chapter. They
> > > started off using the physical sciences which is Dr.
> > Ross's specialty to
> > > provide a powerful exodus from YEC for the church but
> > then abandoned
> > > science when it came to biology and threatened their
> > cherished doctrines
> > > of bibliolatry.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Dick Fischer
> > <dickfischer@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> From: Dick Fischer <dickfischer@verizon.net>
> > >> Subject: RE: [asa] Greetings - An introduction
> > >> To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
> > >> Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 8:19 PM
> > >> Hi George:
> > >>
> > >> Anybody correct me if I'm wrong, but human
> > evolution is
> > >> only one RTB
> > >> rejection. Progressive Creationists reject
> > mutual, shared,
> > >> common
> > >> ancestry for existing species altogether. No
> > links between
> > >> horses and
> > >> zebras for one glaring example. And the genetic
> > distance
> > >> between horses
> > >> and zebras is greater than between humans and
> > chimps.
> > >>
> > >> Dick Fischer, GPA president
> > >> Genesis Proclaimed Association
> > >> "Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and
> > History"
> > >> www.genesisproclaimed.org
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> > >> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> > >> Behalf Of George Murphy
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:46 PM
> > >> To: ASA list
> > >> Subject: Re: [asa] Greetings - An introduction
> > >>
> > >> > From: Michael Roberts
> > >> <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk
> > >>
> > <mailto:michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk?Subject=Re:%20%5basa%5d%20Greeti
> > >> ngs%20-%20An%20introduction> >
> > >> > Date: Tue Sep 09 2008 - 13:29:57 EDT
> > >> > I have followed RTB for 25 years and though I
> > >> don't agree with them in
> > >> their rejection of evolution they have a good
> > approach and
> > >> keep the
> > >> temperature down.
> > >> > As for Methobapterain that sounds like a
> > skidalley
> > >> Baptist getting
> > >> baptised in meths! (In case their is a language
> > problem to
> > >> us Brits
> > >> meths is methanol)
> > >> > Michael
> > >> Unfortunately rejection of human evolution removes
> > most of
> > >> the force of
> > >> fine tuning arguments emphasized by RTB. At best
> > they
> > >> become mere
> > >> numerology.
> > >> Shalom
> > >> George
> > >> http://home.neo.rr.com/scitheologyglm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu
> > with
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> > the message.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
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> > message.
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
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>
>

-- 
David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
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Received on Wed Sep 10 19:55:45 2008

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