Re: [asa] Greetings - An introduction

From: Steve Matheson <smatheso@calvin.edu>
Date: Wed Sep 10 2008 - 19:31:35 EDT

John, thanks for sharing this. As others here know, I've been very concerned about RTB for some time. Many of their "mistakes" are not so easily dismissed as carelessness or ignorance. Rana's repeated misrepresentations of the significance of convergence, and Ross' fabrication of a wholly bogus historical account of research on non-coding DNA suggest to me that at least when they discuss biological evolution they display the same ethical incompetence that discredits most creationist apologists. Mistakes can be fixed, and doing so is evidence of scientific integrity. But I fear that the problem at RTB is much more serious than overconfidence in concordism or careless naivete. Their work is, to me, a scandalous embarrassment, and not merely because they get so many aspects of evolutionary theory wrong.

Steve Matheson

>>> John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com> 09/10/08 6:48 PM >>>
Michael,

I appreciate your sentiment and concern, but as one who has poured his heart and soul into this ministry for the last seven years, I did not offer these comments without much deliberation and reserve.

And your defense could just as easily be applied to the YECs as well and in that case truth has no meaning. This is why I say it is a tragic situtation, because they come so close to doing so much good for so many people, but then lapse back to making the same mistake they set out to liberate others from.

Agreed it is better than many alternatives but I do not feel that is the standard we are called to. We are called to Truth.

Thanks

John

--- On Wed, 9/10/08, Michael Roberts <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:

> From: Michael Roberts <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [asa] Greetings - An introduction
> To: john_walley@yahoo.com, "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 4:37 AM
> John
>
> I agree with you, but feel they are trying to do what is
> right. I think
> their rejection of biology etc is determined by a
> concordist theology.
>
> In a sense they are stuck in the 19th century but that is
> better than some
> alternatives.
>
> I prefer to leave it at that and use whatever useful comes
> out of RTB and
> not make any strident criticism as even in my most bolshy
> moments I don't
> consider that necessary or fair.
>
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Walley" <john_walley@yahoo.com>
> To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>; "Dick
> Fischer" <dickfischer@verizon.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:06 AM
> Subject: RE: [asa] Greetings - An introduction
>
>
> >I also used to be an RTB apologist. The final straw for
> me was also after
> >reading Collins' book and coming to realize that
> RTB hadn't been in my
> >opinion totally honest about the pseudogene evidence
> for common descent. I
> >immediately felt betrayed again like with the YECs and
> that RTB was
> >committed to ideology instead of truth or science also
> just like the YECs.
> >
> > Further I have come to believe that their strict
> concordism and dogmatic
> > stance on inerrancy is simply unworkable and not in
> line with what I think
> > God intended for the scriptures. Lastly it doesn't
> help that Fuz continues
> > to draw the distinction between belief in design and
> evolution in his
> > latest book.
> >
> > This is truly a shame since I have seen God use RTB
> mightily in my life
> > personally as well as in the lives of many in our
> local chapter. They
> > started off using the physical sciences which is Dr.
> Ross's specialty to
> > provide a powerful exodus from YEC for the church but
> then abandoned
> > science when it came to biology and threatened their
> cherished doctrines
> > of bibliolatry.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Dick Fischer
> <dickfischer@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Dick Fischer <dickfischer@verizon.net>
> >> Subject: RE: [asa] Greetings - An introduction
> >> To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
> >> Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 8:19 PM
> >> Hi George:
> >>
> >> Anybody correct me if I'm wrong, but human
> evolution is
> >> only one RTB
> >> rejection. Progressive Creationists reject
> mutual, shared,
> >> common
> >> ancestry for existing species altogether. No
> links between
> >> horses and
> >> zebras for one glaring example. And the genetic
> distance
> >> between horses
> >> and zebras is greater than between humans and
> chimps.
> >>
> >> Dick Fischer, GPA president
> >> Genesis Proclaimed Association
> >> "Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and
> History"
> >> www.genesisproclaimed.org
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> >> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> >> Behalf Of George Murphy
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:46 PM
> >> To: ASA list
> >> Subject: Re: [asa] Greetings - An introduction
> >>
> >> > From: Michael Roberts
> >> <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk
> >>
> <mailto:michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk?Subject=Re:%20%5basa%5d%20Greeti
> >> ngs%20-%20An%20introduction> >
> >> > Date: Tue Sep 09 2008 - 13:29:57 EDT
> >> > I have followed RTB for 25 years and though I
> >> don't agree with them in
> >> their rejection of evolution they have a good
> approach and
> >> keep the
> >> temperature down.
> >> > As for Methobapterain that sounds like a
> skidalley
> >> Baptist getting
> >> baptised in meths! (In case their is a language
> problem to
> >> us Brits
> >> meths is methanol)
> >> > Michael
> >> Unfortunately rejection of human evolution removes
> most of
> >> the force of
> >> fine tuning arguments emphasized by RTB. At best
> they
> >> become mere
> >> numerology.
> >> Shalom
> >> George
> >> http://home.neo.rr.com/scitheologyglm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu
> with
> > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of
> the message.
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Received on Wed Sep 10 19:32:14 2008

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