Re: [asa] biological evolution and a literal Adam- logically inconsistent?

From: George Cooper <georgecooper@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Tue Sep 09 2008 - 22:58:45 EDT

Thanks Bethany, Your view seems much more correct than mine.  I think I got stuck in looking downstream and seeing, erroneously, four rivers form, but it clearly states 4 heads.  I should have looked upstream instead. Thanks Dick for the details.  Does the "canal" term refer to man-made waterways or is it a multiple use word like the Latin "canali" (?).  [When Schiaparelli observed Mars, he used the canali term -- it can mean either natural or man-made waterways --  and Lowell misunderstood it to mean the Martian canalis were not natural formations, thus Martian-built canals.]  "Coope" ----- Original Message ---- From: Bethany Sollereder <bsollereder@gmail.com> To: George Cooper <georgecooper@sbcglobal.net> Cc: asa@calvin.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2008 9:04:21 AM Subject: Re: [asa] biological evolution and a literal Adam- logically inconsistent? Hey, I think the picture of one river becoming four is a picture of extreme abundance, not a handy travelers guide on where to find Eden.  As you pointed out Gordon, other river join the Tigris and Euphrates.  That is the normal way of rivers - tributaries join the main flow.  For this river to work backwards, and to make the two greatest rivers of Babylon, meant richness beyond compare - in the dry middle east, water is life. Bethany On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 6:43 AM, George Cooper <georgecooper@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Hi Gordon, Consider verse 8... And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. It seems to me that only one river was described within the garden and that as it flowed out from Eden it became four separate rivers.  This could happen if the Garden were in a very high region near the headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates today.  An altered geology, I think, could account for two other rivers, one flowing east, IIRC. This idea is somewhat supported with the verse that stations Cherubims only on one side of the Garden.  Why only one side?  Perhaps the other three were impassable.  I envision bluffs in lieu of swamps. "Coope" -----Original Message----- From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of gordon brown Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:30 PM To: asa@calvin.edu Subject: RE: [asa] biological evolution and a literal Adam- logically inconsistent? On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, George Cooper wrote: > Thanks David. > > Given the peak glacial period was around 16,000 years ago, perhaps other > geological changes existed that would give greater credibility to Eden being > very near the headwaters. > > "Coope" George, Genesis appears to want to tell its readers where the Garden of Eden was located. So it has to be the geography of the time when it was written, which would also have to be similar to that of the period in which the events that are described occurred in order to be relevant. The Hebrew describes the four rivers as "heads", which would seem to fit the situation in which all of them come together to form a single river. It was assumed that the readers would know where the Euphrates was. The others were described by the lands through which or beside which they flowed. Today there is another river that joins from the east the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates, and in a wetter period there was another river that joined them from the west. These fit the description of the rivers in Genesis 2. Gordon Brown (ASA member) > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Campbell [mailto:pleuronaia@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 3:47 PM > To: George Cooper > Cc: ASA > Subject: Re: [asa] biological evolution and a literal Adam- logically > inconsistent? > >> If villages existed 20,000 years ago in the region near the four >> mentioned headwaters, would we likely know about it by now? > > Just a note that some models do not take it as headwaters but as a > spot towards the mouth where the rivers join up.  E.g., Glen Morton's > model or Kitchen's suggestion of a spot in what's now the upper end of > the Persian Gulf (one of the rivers being identified with a > paleochannel now buried in the desert of the northern end of Arabia). > > I don't know if there is much non-proprietary data on the Quaternary > record in the Gulf.  With the combination of security challenges and > oil companies wanting to keep data secret (plus the fact that the > relevant layers are far to shallow to interest the oil companies), I'd > guess there isn't that much data. > > > -- > Dr. David Campbell > 425 Scientific Collections > University of Alabama > "I think of my happy condition, surrounded by acres of clams" > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.

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Received on Tue Sep 9 22:59:04 2008

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