Re: [asa] The Science = Atheism Meme

From: Nucacids <>
Date: Wed Jul 30 2008 - 15:40:28 EDT

Hi PvM,

"PZ Myers is not my friend at best he is a fellow poster at Pandasthumb
and I have no problems criticizing him for his actions.However this is not
really about me

and PZ but rather about your 'argument' about

Indeed. Yet your replies have not addressed this point and instead have
sought to change the topic and make it about catholics or the ID movement.
But thank you for providing that link to the "Confraternity of Catholic
Clergy," as it supports my point - note that they are associating this act
with biologists *thanks to Myers.* Word association can go a long way in
the world of public perception, as you know.

"I understand that for some, such a distinction is hard to make especially
when the 'arguments' fail at a basic level of logic."

It's not about logic; it's about public perception. Myers' publicity stunt
has helped to support the public perception that science = atheism. It is a
historical fact, after all, that the #1 Science blog publicly desecrated a
Eucharist wafer to much fanfare and very little criticism from other
"pro-science blogs." .

"I assume that you are not really familiar with the emails received by
PZ and the actions by so called Catholic organizations such as

Yes, I am familiar with all the haze created by allegations, accusations,
and posturing that dominate the murky world of the blogosphere. For example,
I recall that Myers noted that a dozen or so nasty "catholics" turned out to
be *one person* with lots of socks. But you made a specific, real world
claim - "Thanks to Myers, we now know that thousands of catholics seem to
have forgotten that their religious faith is one of forgiveness not one of

Internet haze is no substitute for evidence. Where is the evidence that
"thousands of catholics" have been practicing "vengeance?" I see no data to
support the numerical claim and I see no effort to define "vengeance" to
distinguish it from other motivations nor any effort to determine the most
common response. Like I said, it looks like you are just trying to join in
with Myers' theater to smear Catholics with more spin.

Besides, when it comes to forgiveness, has Myers apologized?

"PS: Do I agree with PZ's actions? While I support him exposing the
hypocrisy and foolishness of some when it comes to persecuting people
for violation of faith based concepts, I also believe that ripping
pages out of bibles and korans and piercing consecrated hosts, while
certainly a valid form of expression, serves little purpose other than
to incite more foolishness."

But that is what the #1 Science blog did. THAT is the issue I raised.
Instead of trying to bury this historical fact with complaints and smears
against catholics, or raising irrelevant anti-ID movement talking points,
why not simply address this fact head-on?

Do you think this stunt was more likely to dispel or to add to the
science=atheism confusion? It's a simple question

Fourth posting - last for the day.

- Mike

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Received on Wed Jul 30 15:41:26 2008

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