Re: [asa] The Science = Atheism Meme

From: PvM <>
Date: Wed Jul 30 2008 - 14:29:43 EDT

PZ Myers is not my friend at best he is a fellow poster at Pandasthumb
and I have no problems criticizing him for his actions. However this
is not really about me and PZ but rather about your 'argument' about
I understand that for some, such a distinction is hard to make
especially when the 'arguments' fail at a basic level of logic.

I assume that you are not really familiar with the emails received by
PZ and the actions by so called Catholic organizations such as
Donahue's. Now we see this foolishness extended to the "Confraternity
of Catholic Clergy" who are making some pretty silly arguments about
biologists not being allowed to dissing any religion.

Catholics may disagree with Myers' actions but when they make foolish
attempts to interpret law, they should take notice of their own creed
that "theologians have no business interpreting law" or are such
notions only limited to atheists.

That more and more so-called Catholic organizations continue to look
foolish is something that amazes me.

I need not read Miller to appreciate the blatant errors made by the
fathers and godfathers of ID when conflating methodological and
philosophical naturalism. That some want to lay blame with atheists
seems to me granting too much power to atheists over Christian
thought. Then again, from perusing the blogs by such ID "greats" as
Bill Dembski's UcD, it seems that indeed many have indeed granted much
power of atheists over their thinking and faith, something which never
ceases to amaze me.

Of course not to mention how many people seem to have misunderstood or
misquoted Dawkins and other atheists for socio-political purposes.

To claim that PZ Myers' actions strengthen ignorance amongst
Christians is in my opinion laying blame at the wrong place.

PS: Do I agree with PZ's actions? While I support him exposing the
hypocrisy and foolishness of some when it comes to persecuting people
for violation of faith based concepts, I also believe that ripping
pages out of bibles and korans and piercing consecrated hosts, while
certainly a valid form of expression, serves little purpose other than
to incite more foolishness. And let me repeat that PZ Myers is not my
friend although I can see why some may jump to such conclusions on
mere coincidental data.

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Nucacids <> wrote:
> Hi PvM,
> "I see no real relevance between the actions of Myers and the so called
> atheism = science confusion."
> Then we simply see things differently. It would seem rather obvious to me
> that when the most public and recent example of iconoclasm is committed by a
> scientist on his #1 "science blog," a blog praised by Nature and many
> scientists, you have helped to entrench the science = atheism confusion.
> "As to laying the blame on atheists, you perhaps are unaware with how
> leading ID proponents have milked this confusion for socio religious
> purposes? Seems to be a common trend I guess."
> There is plenty of blame to go around, PvM. Leading ID proponents have been
> able to milk this confusion for socio religious purposes precisely because
> they do not have to invent people like Dawkins, Myers et al. As I noted,
> Ken Miller explains this well in his first book (did you read that
> chapter?).
> "Science may lead to atheism but that of course is because of the
> foolish position by many religions to not accept scientific findings
> and students finding out that science is right after all. What is one
> to do when raised to believe that the earth is young or that science
> cannot explain the bacterial flagellum, only to find out exactly the
> opposite."
> I don't think many people become atheists because of science. But that's
> another topic.
> "Thanks to Myers, we now know that thousands of catholics seem to have
> forgotten that their religious faith is one of forgiveness not one of
> vengeance."
> Since Myers is your friend and fellow blogger over at PT, I can understand
> your reluctance to criticize him. But must your defense be premised on
> further smearing Catholics with a broad brush? Do you have any evidence
> that thousands of Catholics are engaged in acts of vengeance?
> -Mike
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Received on Wed Jul 30 14:30:07 2008

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