Re: [asa] Predestined Fame:

From: Vernon Jenkins <>
Date: Thu Jul 17 2008 - 16:44:56 EDT

Hi Murray,

Thanks for the concession. However - as the unwitting author of VJRV (: -
I am puzzled by your seemingly contradictory remarks, viz "...the AV text is
not divinely inspired..." and "We know Scripture to be the Word of God by
the internal witness of the Holy Spirit." A clarification therefore would be

As I see it, your intention is to convey the idea that the truth of the
Scriptures cannot be deduced by rational argument - even when this is based
upon self-evident truth. But surely the Lord himself scotches that notion
when he says "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I
do, though ye believe not me, _believe the works_: that ye may know, and
believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." (Jn.10:37,38).

Accordingly, let me draw your attention to two further pages of mine which
focus on Bible structure as _a work of God_. They may be found at and

In my view, the facts presented therein should extend our understanding of
divine inspiration and be faith-strengthening news for all Christians. Would
you agree? Or would you still consider my position to be 'fundamentally
flawed'. But if so, in what respect?



----- Original Message -----
From: "Murray Hogg" <>
To: "ASA" <>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [asa] Predestined Fame:

> Hi Vernon,
> Yep, I'd agree that discounting "selah" is reasonable and that the remark
> about the "e" in Shakespeare is tendentious. But, then, I hold to the view
> that the AV text is not divinely inspired and that its actual wording has
> no linguistic/numerological significance whatsoever - so I can afford to
> make such concessions.
> What I don't agree with is that YOU can make such concessions and still
> demand that I should see the text of the AV _as actually written_ having
> some scarily amazing level of linguistic/numerological significance.
> At the end of the day, Vernon, if I allow that your
> linguistic/numerological arguments are valid, then all they demonstrate is
> the divine origin of the VJRV (Vernon Jenkins Revised Version) and tell me
> nothing about the AV _as actually written_.
> Personally, my two-fold response to your approach is as follows; (1) I
> reject your linguistic/numerological approach as fundamentally flawed; and
> (2) I stand by the historical Protestant position regarding our knowledge
> of the divine origin of the Scriptures, viz: We know Scripture to be the
> Word of God by the internal witness of the Holy Spirit.
> To offer an analogy pertinent to the scientific nature of the list, I see
> your approach as working ONLY if you are allowed to get away with a highly
> questionable "fudging" of the equations -- a bit like Einstein's addition
> of a cosmological constant to "fix" the theory of general relativity. Such
> a constant was required by Einstein's need to demonstrate a point, not
> because of any truly scientific motive. Like Einstein, I see you as
> fudging the equations to prove a point which simply can't be proven on the
> basis of the evidence as it actually exists.
> (and, yes, I know that the cosmological constant has subsequently been
> seen as necessary - but the point is that Einstein had no reason for its
> inclusion, other than to defend a preconceived position)
> Blessings,
> Murray Hogg
> Pastor, East Camberwell Baptist Church, Victoria, Australia
> Post-Grad Student (MTh), Australian College of Theology
> Vernon Jenkins wrote:
>> Hi Murray,
>> In my Concise OED I observe that 'selah' is "an exclamation - probably a
>> musical direction". On this understanding it must stand apart from the
>> Psalm proper, and discounting it appears to be a reasonable thing to do -
>> wouldn't you agree? Regarding the absence of the terminal 'e' of
>> Shakespeare: this is surely a clutching at straws; I fail to see that it
>> seriously compromises the strength of the existing coincidences.
>> Regards,
>> Vernon--
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Received on Thu Jul 17 16:45:53 2008

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