Re: [asa] Expelled and ID (ID detection?)

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Fri Apr 25 2008 - 02:38:22 EDT

Thanks George. I am thinking about this (albeit slowly). I only have so
many cycles
Barr writes something that I think will help frame the question a bit
better. I'll post it this weekend.


On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:22 AM, George Murphy <> wrote:

> 1st, as I explained in an earlier post, there is a difference between
> simply thinking "there is a God" and knowing anything about who God is. The
> knowledge of the existence of God that may be inferred from observing the
> world does not tell us the character or purposes of God & thus provides no
> material for an independent natural theology.
> 2d, Paul's whole point in the section 1:18 - 3:20 is to show that all
> people are sinners. What he 1st argues is that people misuse belief in the
> existence of God & construct idols - i.e., they make the wrong inferences
> about who God is. & it's quite significant that when Paul gets to the end
> of that section he doesn't say, "OK, now let's do it right & develop a
> proper natural theology." Instead he immediately turns to Christ.
> 3d, specific to the modern ID debate. Whatever evidence Paul was talking
> about was something that was supposed to be evident to the average person in
> the 1st century Mediterranean world. So trying to use this passage to show
> that we should be able to infer a designer from the bacterial flagellum &c
> is bogus.
> Shalom
> George
> <>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* David Clounch <>
> *To:* George Murphy <>
> *Cc:*
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:29 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] Expelled and ID (ID detection?)
> That means that we can't read off any information about God from our
>> study of the universe.
> I'd like to ask, what does Romans 1:20 (NIV) mean?
> "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal
> power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what
> has been made, so that men are without excuse."

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Received on Fri Apr 25 02:39:23 2008

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