Re: [asa] Expelled and ID (ID detection?)

From: George Murphy <>
Date: Wed Apr 23 2008 - 05:22:04 EDT

1st, as I explained in an earlier post, there is a difference between simply thinking "there is a God" and knowing anything about who God is. The knowledge of the existence of God that may be inferred from observing the world does not tell us the character or purposes of God & thus provides no material for an independent natural theology.

2d, Paul's whole point in the section 1:18 - 3:20 is to show that all people are sinners. What he 1st argues is that people misuse belief in the existence of God & construct idols - i.e., they make the wrong inferences about who God is. & it's quite significant that when Paul gets to the end of that section he doesn't say, "OK, now let's do it right & develop a proper natural theology." Instead he immediately turns to Christ.

3d, specific to the modern ID debate. Whatever evidence Paul was talking about was something that was supposed to be evident to the average person in the 1st century Mediterranean world. So trying to use this passage to show that we should be able to infer a designer from the bacterial flagellum &c is bogus.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: David Clounch
  To: George Murphy
  Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:29 AM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Expelled and ID (ID detection?)

     That means that we can't read off any information about God from our study of the universe.

  I'd like to ask, what does Romans 1:20 (NIV) mean?

  "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

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Received on Wed Apr 23 05:25:35 2008

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