Re: [asa] Expelled and ID (ID detection?)

From: David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
Date: Mon Apr 21 2008 - 16:15:26 EDT

Ah, I knew we'd hear the Lutheran critique! :-)

I wouldn't say the analogia entis is purely speculative -- it seems to me to
reflect scripture's own modest natural theology (Ps. 119, Rom. 1:20)

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:08 PM, George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com> wrote:

> The *analogia entis* is purely speculative - there is no reason to think
> that the creation has to resemble the creator. To put it in terms of the
> two books metaphor, the "book of nature" tells us about nature, not the
> author of nature. Ezra Pound's quip is relevant: "You can spot the the bad
> critic when he starts by discussing the poet and not the poem."
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
> *To:* David Campbell <pleuronaia@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* asa@calvin.edu
> *Sent:* Monday, April 21, 2008 12:56 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] Expelled and ID (ID detection?)
>
> #2a is where, IMHO, ID shoots itself in the foot by denying that the
> designer must be God. One could make a theological argument that if the
> creation reflects God's character, and if humans are made in the image of
> God, then we *do* have at least some information about what God as
> designer would or would not do. This is the analogia entis, the analogy of
> being, which is a kind of natural theology (but not the strong kind of
> argument from design advanced by Paley). Bonaventure offered a medieval
> understanding of the analogia entis as follows:
>
>
> "All created things of the sensible world lead the mind of the
> contemplator and wise man to eternal God... They are the shades, the
> resonances, the pictures of that efficient, exemplifying, and ordering art;
> they are the tracks, simulacra, and spectacles; they are divinely given
> signs set before us for the purpose of seeing God. They are exemplifications
> set before our still unrefined and sense-oriented minds, so that by the
> sensible things which they see they might be transferred to the intelligible
> which they cannot see, as if by signs to the signified" (*Itinerarium
> mentis ad Deum*, 2.11, as quoted p. *165*<http://www.amazon.com/Power-Images-Studies-History-Response/dp/0226261468/sr=8-1/qid=1166403688/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-3098627-7623259?ie=UTF8&s=books>
> ).
>
>
> Good discussion of the analogia entis, the protestant-Lutheran-Barthian
> response to it, and a balanced perspective, here:
> http://millinerd.com/2006/12/whos-afraid-of-analogia-entis.html
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:45 AM, David Campbell <pleuronaia@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Design could be detected scientifically if:
> > 1) it is clearly defined as to what is or is not designed
> >
> > and
> >
> > 2a) either we have information about what a designer would or would not
> > do
> >
> > or
> >
> > 2b) we have a large sample of known examples of designed and
> > non-designed objects from which we can characterize patterns.
> >
> > Both multiverse and pro-ID fine-tuning arguments run afoul of
> > criterion 2. We need to know either who the designer is and what
> > actions he/she/it/they would take (both ID and atheism advocates
> > profess ignorance about who yet certainty about what actions are
> > expected, an implausible position) or else need something like the
> > answer to the old spoof exam question "Describe the universe and give
> > three examples", except that only three examples won't give you enough
> > statistical confidence.
> >
> > In the case of human activity, we have fairly good ideas about both 2a
> > and 2b. If "design" is defined as intentional human action, we can
> > compare things made by non-human natural agents with things made by
> > people and thus have a good idea as to whether, e.g., a crudely flaked
> > flint pebble was deliberately shaped by an early hominid or trampled
> > by a herd of antelope.
> >
> > --
> > Dr. David Campbell
> > 425 Scientific Collections
> > University of Alabama
> > "I think of my happy condition, surrounded by acres of clams"
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>
>

-- 
David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Mon Apr 21 16:30:52 2008

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Mon Apr 21 2008 - 16:30:52 EDT