RE: [asa] Expelled and ID

From: skrogh. <panterragroup@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun Apr 20 2008 - 21:44:01 EDT

Thanks for the input, but that is not what we are really talking about with
my modicum of sarcasm. I am talking about Design in the ID movement in
trying to compete with legit sciences, not as in that 70's song "Master
Designer." Since there is no lab test that can be used to tell what is
designed or what isn't or nothing that can falsify it. Similar to trying to
falsify Omphalism. Hope that clears it up.

=========================================

  -----Original Message-----
  From: David Opderbeck [mailto:dopderbeck@gmail.com]
  Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 8:34 PM
  To: panterragroup@mindspring.com
  Cc: D. F. Siemens, Jr.; asa@calvin.edu
  Subject: Re: [asa] Expelled and ID

  Whatever you think if ID, "bad design" is a poor response if you believe
in a creator God at all. However God created, this is we He did, "bad"
designs and all. Unless you profess a God who isn't in control over
whatever procesess He used to create.

  On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 3:21 PM, skrogh. <panterragroup@mindspring.com>
wrote:

    Bad designs haven't seemed to gotten through the ID design detector.
    =========================================

      -----Original Message-----
      From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
Behalf Of D. F. Siemens, Jr.
      Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 10:35 PM
      To: panterragroup@mindspring.com
      Cc: asa@calvin.edu
      Subject: Re: [asa] Expelled and ID

      I think there is one which does so in principle. It's opposite would
justify ID. If we have sequenced the genomes of all the species, or at least
all the species in one kingdom, and figured out exactly how all the various
parts work, if we discover some genes/control sequences/whatever else comes
up that cannot be derived from others earlier in the evolutionary
development, we presumably have evidence that they were introduced by the
deity or some superior power. This is sure evidence for ID. However, the
current indication is that we have sequences in genomes that simply preserve
stuff from the past, which is clear evidence against ID. Things are too
sloppy to be designed, unless the designer intends to mislead us.

      Generally, given the state of human knowledge, proof and falsification
are claims too strong to be supported.
      Dave (ASA)

      On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 17:46:02 -0500 "skrogh."
<panterragroup@mindspring.com> writes:
        Also, can one conceive of a potential observation that would falsify
ID?

          -----Original Message-----
          From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
[mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
          Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:39 PM
          To: asa@calvin.edu
          Subject: RE: [asa] Expelled and ID

          ID is saying it is "science" so it can be more serious. To make
it science, you have to bear on scientific things, such as math (statistics)
and biology. So they are appealing to the hard sciences to bring it into
the scientific realm.

          However, they have no scientific hypothesis. "God made it" is not
a hypothesis, since it can't be tested. By definition, the scientific
method requires a hypothesis that can be tested. You also can't test
evolution per "origin of life," but there are other parts of evolution which
are testable… ID has nothing testable. They think by disproving known
naturalistic methods, God is then the default answer—but it isn't.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

          From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
[mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Mountainwoman
          Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 2:10 PM
          To: asa@calvin.edu
          Subject: [asa] Expelled and ID

          Having just seen Ben Stein's "Expelled," one thought that occurred
to me is the following:

          Is Intelligent Design a modern incarnation of the classic
teleological argument for the existence of God and therefore belongs in the
philosophy and/or theology departments of universities rather than in the
science departments?

          Paul Bruggink (ASA Member)

          Clarington, PA

  --
  David W. Opderbeck
  Associate Professor of Law
  Seton Hall University Law School
  Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology

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Received on Sun Apr 20 21:46:43 2008

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