Re: [asa] Proposed Revision of Genesis 1-11 in the KJV

From: George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com>
Date: Sun Apr 20 2008 - 19:34:54 EDT

MessageThis will be my last comment on this thread & on a quite minor point at that, but it's one that shows how uncritical Dick is about evaluating putative evidence that supports his views. There's a mound in Nineveh named for Jonah so the Book of Jonah is historically accurate! Maybe - but maybe pious Jews, or Christians, or Muslims connected that mound in Nineveh with Jonah because they believed that he'd been there. That kind of thing has happened in many different cultures at different times. Without something like the discovery of remains in the mound that can be dated around the time of Jonah & something like DNA evidence that links the remains to ancient Israelites, the evidential value of this mound is pretty close to zero. Ditto for "the mound of repentance."

I pointed this out once before here & got no response from Dick. Is anyone surprised?

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Dick Fischer
  To: ASA
  Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Proposed Revision of Genesis 1-11 in the KJV

  Hi John:

  They were Semites from Asshur, Noah's grandson. See Gen.10:11. There are two crumbling mounds in Mosul today. One is called the "mound of repentence." The other is for the "nebi yonas" (prophet Jonah). So I guess he did his job. There is a mosque there supposedly built over his burial site.

  Dick Fischer, president

  Genesis Proclaimed Association

  Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History

  www.genesisproclaimed.org

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: John Walley
    To: 'Merv' ; 'Dick Fischer' ; asa@calvin.edu
    Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:56 PM
    Subject: RE: [asa] Proposed Revision of Genesis 1-11 in the KJV

    And why did God send Jonah to Nineveh to preach repentance then if they weren't able to be saved?

    John
      -----Original Message-----
      From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Merv
      Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:24 PM
      To: Dick Fischer; asa@calvin.edu
      Subject: Re: [asa] Proposed Revision of Genesis 1-11 in the KJV

      Dick Fischer wrote:

        As to your comment: "it's equally obvious that from the start they envision all of humanity as being included in God's creative & (toward the end, prophetically) salvific purposes." Well, no George, that is not at all obvious as it wasn't even obvious to Jesus' disciples. Beyond their own proselytes I see no evidence in the OT that the Jews themselves believed any outside the twelve tribes were worthy or eligible for God's kingdom. Only by contorting the text in Genesis 1 can you get gentiles under the umbrella. In fact, the NRSV did exactly that.

      Granted --the disciples even of Jesus' day (& even in early church after) found this one a hard one to swallow. But 'no evidence in the OT'!!?? When I'm reading the O.T., I often run across verses that stick out because of their seeming exceptionality. E.g. --giving your enemy food & water if he's thirsty---then do the double take when you realize you're reading Proverbs. So Jesus didn't just invent the concept! So it is with salvation for the nations, Dick. Just a quick search for the phrase 'all nations' in my Bible software got 18 hits, 17 of them in the O.T. And some of those were announcing judgment, of course, but many of them were announcing the ultimate blessing to 'all nations'. Ps. 86:9 and Isa. 2:2 are two particularly representative examples (pasted in below), but I could find others by doing a more proper search. Do you write these passages off as the exceptions that prove the rule? Or do you dispute the translations? And speaking of the proposed 'rule', what would you cite as the major passages indicating that other nations are forever excluded from the Kingdom of God?

      --Merv

      Psalms 86:9 All nations you have made will come and worship before you, Lord. They shall glorify your name.

      Isaiah 2:2 It shall happen in the latter days, that the mountain of Yahweh's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be raised above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it.

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Received on Sun Apr 20 19:38:54 2008

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