Re: [asa] A Message from the RTB Scholar Team (fwd)

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>
Date: Thu Apr 17 2008 - 17:13:32 EDT

How can RTB adopt common descent when they are committed to the creation
of every "kind"? They also hold to a strictly sequential day-age
interpretation of Genesis 1 with inerrant agreement between science and
Dave (ASA)

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:15:07 -0400 "Stephen Matheson"
<> writes:
> "Guarded optimism?" Okay, I can do that. :-)
> And I'll go a step further. As disturbing as RTB's misconduct can
> be, its apologists have consistently avoided culture war posturing.
> They can't be believed when they say they respect biologists, but
> they should be commended not just for this one letter but for their
> steadfast refusal to heed the call to arms. I think this is partly
> due to their apologetic/evangelistic mission and partly to the fact
> that -- unlike the thuggish Discovery Institute crowd -- they seem
> to be genuinely decent guys.
> It seems to me that it would take relatively little for RTB to
> become respectable, with regard to intellectual integrity. They
> wouldn't need to abandon any of their main themes or beliefs (as
> silly and dangerous as many of them are). They would need only to
> acknowledge the explanatory power of common descent, disavow the
> kind of folk scientific dishonesty that characterizes their work on
> biological origins, and correct their serious but not overwhelmingly
> common errors. The Discovery Institute, by contrast, was built from
> the beginning on culture war and intellectual dishonesty. Their
> efforts are, in my view, unredeemable.
> Steve
> >>> "Rich Blinne" <> 04/17/08 3:36 PM >>>
> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Stephen Matheson
> <>
> wrote:
> >
> > So, yes, kudos to RTB for eschewing the brainless and suicidal
> call to
> > culture war. But don't be fooled: Reasons To Believe is an
> embarrassing
> > repository of potentially dangerous folk science, and their
> breaches of
> > professional scientific integrity should be cause for significant
> concern.
> > And don't be too impressed by their claim to respect the
> scientific
> > community on common descent. Polite contempt is still contempt.
> >
> Nevertheless, it is good to know there is a line there. Folk science
> eschews
> no argument if it advances the "ideology". In this case, the
> evidence around
> RTB -- namely that secular scientists are not oppressors -- overrode
> their
> folk science. And it's not merely the physics v. biology thing
> either
> because Dr. Gonzalez was one of the "expelled". Your blog makes a
> compelling
> case for folk science at RTB but -- call me naive -- I find this
> letter as a
> reason for guarded optimism.
> Rich Blinne
> Member ASA
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Received on Thu Apr 17 17:15:40 2008

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