RE: [asa] Expelled Explained (firing those you don't agree with)

From: Dehler, Bernie <>
Date: Mon Apr 14 2008 - 14:33:09 EDT

I think whether you realize it or not, every organization has a "brand"
and "brand recognition" they are worried about. They spend a lot of
money and energy on that. The Discovery Institute has their agenda and
brand, and so does every institute of higher learning. They all want to
be the best, and if so, carefully nurture their image. If, as a group,
they consider ID to be "unscientific," then it would be "major egg on
the face" to employ such a person. Everyone is for "academic freedom"
... even the Discovery Institute, but does that mean the Discovery
Institute should hire and finance those who want to expand and develop
theories of evolution? Does the Discovery Institute support "academic
freedom" within their organization? Of course they do, as long as the
academics are in-line with their agenda.


The Discovery Institute is being hypocritical if they demand that
universities employ those who believe in ID, yet the Discovery Institute
refuses to finance and advance researchers interested in evolutionary
science. What kind of freedom is the Discovery Institute advocating...
one-way freedom? Isn't what's good for the goose also good for the


David said: "Academic freedom is a primary reason some of us choose to
teach instead of making the big bucks at Intel."

I don't know about that. Making big bucks at Intel is good for those
who are greedy and like money, I think (Intel used to be a place to get
rich because of stock options, but the stock has been dead for the last
8 years or so... many are disappointed that). In my heart- I'd rather
teach. Not for academic freedom, but because it is more my
personality... teaching rather than doing. I'm more of a "people
person" in which teaching fits well; it goes against my grain to be
working individually and isolated as I mostly do. I'm working on my
"liberation plan" from Intel to do more teaching, etc. As I get older,
I love learning so much more, and searching for truth. If I had a more
privileged start in life with the right parents, I could have easily
went the education route and had been a professor... I'm taking the long
and curvy road in that direction instead.

I've worked at Intel for 23 years, but I'm not average as an employee.
The average life-span is 5 years. Intel is brutal. They put "survival
of the fittest" to the test. That's why they are so aggressive and
powerful. Even the executives work like slaves. Of course for them, it
is worth it because of the power, prestige, and money they get.
Actually, thinking about it, one reason why I've been able to stay
around so long, I think, is because I found a good niche-just like
animals in evolution. I've had a few close calls where I almost left,



From: David Opderbeck []
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:01 AM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Subject: Re: [asa] Expelled Explained (firing those you don't agree


Bernie -- the problem here is that academic freedom is central to the
mission of any public university and of most private universities.
Academic freedom is a primary reason some of us choose to teach instead
of making the big bucks at Intel.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Dehler, Bernie
<> wrote:

Gordon- that is exactly it! If a college fires someone for ID
mentality, it is because ID mentality goes against the institution's
view and stand on science and what they want to be known for, their
"brand." If a university wants to be known as on the fore-front of
evolutionary science, then an ID'er would kill their reputation... they
want and need like-minded people to fulfill their mission.


I work for Intel and am working on book ideas, but I won't be mentioning
my employer. They don't share my view. I can't use Intel as a
platform, but then again, I have total freedom to say whatever I want.
If a Prof. writes a book, what they say reflects on their institution
(if they mention where they teach), as they'd have no platform (no job)
if it wasn't for their institution, and it looks implicitly like their
institution supports them. Same with a preacher, reflecting his views
upon the entire church. The key is to work for an outfit that shares
your view if that outfit will be known as employing you.


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Behalf Of gordon brown
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:26 AM
Subject: RE: [asa] Expelled Explained (firing those you don't agree


On Mon, 14 Apr 2008, Dehler, Bernie wrote:


> Hi Don- let me ask you a similar question. What would happen if the

> Discovery Institute hired a researcher, and then the researcher became

> an evolutionist. Would this researcher still be able to hold a job at

> the Discovery Institute? Of course not. Suppose a preacher at a

> became an atheist- could they hold their job as preacher? Of course

> There was also talk lately of a Prof. being booted from his seminary

> because of evolutionary belief (I don't have the details- picked it up

> in passing). Why not give colleges the same respect to hire people

> they agree with? The college wants to move in a certain direction,

> they want to hire those who can advance their cause.




I don't think these are valid analogies unless we are making comparisons

with someone whose teaching conflicts with the mission of his


Gordon Brown (ASA member)


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David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology 
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Received on Mon Apr 14 14:35:26 2008

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