RE: [asa] Was Adam a real person?

From: Dick Fischer <>
Date: Tue Apr 08 2008 - 23:51:16 EDT

Hi Merv, you wrote:
>>Why appeal to Josephus or even Berossus? Weren't they getting their
info from the same place we are -- from Jewish records?<<
They got their information the same way I got mine. They went to the
library and compiled it from written sources. Berossus had the library
at Babylon and Josephus had the library in Jerusalem. Both were
destroyed. Even Berossus only survived because he was quoted by others.
No one bothered to copy his corpus of work and it perished.
Dick Fischer. author, lecturer
Historical Genesis from Adam to Abraham
-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Behalf Of Merv
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Was Adam a real person?
Dick Fischer wrote:
Hi David:
Job is one issue - who was there to witness the sons of God gathering
together and could have transcribed the conversation between Satan and
God? Jonah is another issue. There are two crumbling mounds in Mosul
(ancient Nineveh) today. One is called the "mound of repentance." The
other is called the mound of the nebi Yonas (prophet Jonah.) Plus,
there is a mosque erected over the supposed burial site.
Abraham rebuked his father Terah who was an idolator in Jubliees.
Josephus said, "In the tenth generation after the flood there was a man
among the Chaldeans who was just, great and knowledgeable about heavenly
phenomena." That would be Abraham. He was further described as ".a
person of great sagacity, both for understanding all things, and
persuading his hearers, and not mistaken in his inferences. So he began
to have higher notions of virtue than others had, and determined to
alter and change the opinion all men then had concerning God; for he was
the first that ventured to declare that there was but one God, the
Creator of the Universe; and that of other things whatever contributed
anything to the happiness of men, as only according to his appointment,
and not by its own power."
Berossus wrote: "... a man named Abraham, a man of noble race and
superior to all others in wisdom. Of him they relate that he was the
inventor of astrology and the Chaldean magic, and that on account of his
eminent piety he was esteemed by God. It is further said that under the
directions of God he removed and lived in Phenicia (sic), and there
taught the Phenicians the motions of the sun and moon, and all other
things; for which reason he was held in great reverence by their king."
One archaeologist, Hilprecht, from the University of Pennsylvania
visited the tomb of Daniel. I read his book and he described the
journey to the tomb. How can you question whether or not there was a
prophet Isaiah? Who wrote the book? Somebody had to write the book and
hand it to somebody else who would have known the authorship. Any
imposter would have been discovered immediately.
Joseph and Mary traveled to the city of David. For whom was the city
Why appeal to Josephus or even Berossus? Weren't they getting their
info from the same place we are -- from Jewish records? They may be a
couple thousand years closer than we are, but they are still one to two
thousand years removed themselves; so their reliance on the sacred writ
isn't appreciably different than ours. (unless they were known to have
access to records now lost.) It seems more interesting --or maybe
problematic, to discuss how or what the N.T. authors thought about all
this since they are closer within the expectation of inspiration.

Good points about cities & such. Of course, are there any cities in
the world named after more recent personas that are known to be
mythical? I can't think of any offhand. Also, I thought archaeologists
had found independent (and to them surprising!) evidence --an
inscription of some kind? -- of David's existence. I wish I could
remember where I had read that. Because in McGrath's 'Twilight of
Atheism' that I just finished, David & Solomon made his list of people
or events who are found in no other informational source other than the

Speaking of the 'who would have been there to report it' class of
ponderings --- I've also wondered who divulged the details about how
Jesus faired in the desert for 40 days. He, himself, would have been
the only natural source for it. And it seems awkward to me to imagine
Jesus relaying the details of his personal spiritual victories to his
disciples later. But then again -- Jesus wasn't just any other monk
on a pilgrimage. The Son of God was probably never in danger of being
accused of a false humility.


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Received on Tue Apr 8 23:53:44 2008

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