Re: [asa] Fw: Message to Jennifer M. Granholm, Governor of Michigan

From: Gregory Arago <>
Date: Mon Apr 07 2008 - 08:00:53 EDT

This is exactly the attitude that exacerbates things. You have misunderstood my intention, Jack. I don't mind criticism, in fact, I welcome it. That is, if it can be conducted in a fair spirit, which is said to define this ASA list.
  First, if you boot me, you boot sociology. There are no other sociologists here. Sociology of science may not be comfortable for scientists to listen to (and sometimes actually to hear), but it is a legitimate and recognized sub-discipline in the field of sociology. Science-friendly should be also sociology-friendly, which this list sometimes appears not to be.
  "as far as I am concerned evolution is specifically a biological entity" - Jack
  Second, do you want me to post a list with a range of places, fields, disciplines in today's academy outside of natural sciences where 'evolutionary theory' is widely used? Would this convince you that 'evolution is not a specifically biological entity'??
  Actually, Jack, now that you say it so clearly and precisely, this is EXACTLY the point I've been trying to make. Some people wish to insist, as you do, that "evolution is specifically a biological entity," while others are more in tune with contemporary academia on a broader context, to recognize that evolution is far bigger than merely biology. If you don't yet know this, please don't weigh in as an authority on the issue. It's similar in scope to saying that women can't be scientists!

  Stephen's post is actually disingenuous because it just asks a question to a question. And then it goes on to question whether sociology is actually a science. Now that I have answered him (mutations do not belong in human-social sciences), we'll see if he can contribute something positive. Can Stephen, as a biologist, admit there are some places that 'evolutionary theory' doesn't belong?
  Oh, yes, I am listening Jack, my ears, eyes and heart are open! Spell out my agenda more clearly than I have, please Jack. To defend sociology against the oppression of biology ('the biological challenge to social science,' 2006) is a clear mission!
  My humility, Jack is easily recognized as coming from a 'smaller' discipline than biology. I just challenged the condescension of biology toward sociology (e.g. sociobiology and evolutionary psychology), and now am told that I condescend upon biology. This, I find mysteriously interesting! -)
  Warm regards, G.
Jack <> wrote:
          I am going to say this for fear of getting kicked off the list. As far as I can tell Michael Roberts was kicked off and I only saw one public post that was sarcastic regarding Gregory. And this too is going to be critical of Gregory but hopefully constructive.
  As I see things here Gregory, you are complaining that no one wants to include social sciences in the dialog regarding evolution. But this is a science friendly list, and as far as I am concerned evolution is specifically a biological entity. And Stephen's clever post bears this out. In biological evolution we are specifically talking about genes, selection, mutation. None of these forces apply to human social interactions, and similarly do not apply to stars, the universe or other things that are said to evolve.
  Having said all of that as I see things on this list, it is you Gregory who have the agenda. You keep harping on and on about the same things. You never listen to others on the list, you never respond. Your prose is loquacious, but devoid of meaning. If you are really interested in discussing your views, you would be better to simplify your posts, drop the holier-than-though attitude, (try some humility for a change), drop the agenda, listen, and try to interact instead of preaching. Essentially I have started deleting your posts as soon as they arrive, they are not much more than a waste of time.

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Received on Mon Apr 7 08:03:36 2008

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