Re: [asa] Fw: Message to Jennifer M. Granholm, Governor of Michigan

From: David Opderbeck <>
Date: Sat Apr 05 2008 - 17:27:44 EDT

None of these numbers really mean anything, do they? You can find 11,000
"clergy" to say some really stupid things. You could probably easily round
up 11,000 "clergy" to sign a statement that Jesus didn't rise from the
dead. But then, you can round up 714 "scientists" to say some stupid things
as well.

On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Dick Fischer <>

> Let's see, 714 scientists dissent from evolution while over 11,000 clergy
> have signed the clergy letter in support of it. I wonder what the
> scientists know that the clergy don't and vice versa. Maybe our species
> hasn't evolved enough that we yet have the brains to figure these things
> out,
> Dick Fischer. author, lecturer
> Historical Genesis from Adam to Abraham
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* [] *On
> Behalf Of *David Opderbeck
> *Sent:* Friday, April 04, 2008 11:04 PM
> *To:* gordon brown
> *Cc:*
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] Fw: Message to Jennifer M. Granholm, Governor of
> Michigan
> I don't think the Governor of Michigan is in any event going to pay
> attention to a letter from a church in Florida FILLED WITH CAPITAL LETTERS.
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:53 PM, gordon brown <>
> wrote:
> Do any of you know exactly what this teacher was teaching and in what
> class? Did she teach irreducible complexity or Dembski's filter? I am
> interested in knowing how relevant the arguments in the letter to the
> governor are. By googling I found out that A Scientific Dissent from
> Darwinism is worded in such a way that it merely expresses skepticism about
> the sufficiency of random mutation and natural selection to account for
> life's complexity. It doesn't mention Intelligent Design, and among its 714
> signers are several prominent ASA members. It is not clear that they would
> all agree with the actions of this teacher or that they agree with each
> other on details.
> Gordon Brown (ASA member)
> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008, D. F. Siemens, Jr. wrote:
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> Recently a public school teacher was fired for presenting Intelligent
> Design to her students.
> Coral Ridge ministries wrote an interesting request to the Governor of
> Michigan. I thought you might like to note its contents - for your own
> storehouse of knowledge.
> The FACT that HUNDREDS OF PH.D.-LEVEL SCIENTISTS, including those with
> doctorates from Cambridge, Standford, Cornell, Yale, Rutgers, Chicago,
> Princeton, Purdue, Duke, Michigan, Syracuse, Temple, and Berkeley, and
> teachers at MIT, Tulane, Rice, Emory, George Mason, Lehigh, and the
> Universities of California, Washington, Texas, Florida, North Carolina,
> Wisconsin, Ohio, Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, Georgia, New Mexico,
> Utah, Pennsylvania, and elsewhere, have publicly expressed deep
> skepticism of Darwinism, with one-hundred signing their names to a A
> THE FACT that scientists such as biophysicist Dr. Dean Kenyon, author of
> a leading textbook on biology, astronomer Dr. Allan Sandage, called by
> the New York Times "the Old Man of Cosmology," and countless others have
> NATURE based on their scientific observations;
> THE FACT that leading paleontologists, such as Dr. Colin Patterson of the
> British Museum of Natural HIstory, and the late Dr. Stephen J. Gould of
> Harvard, have admitted that after 150 years of discovering fossils, MAJOR
> THE FACT that teaching the Intelligent Design Theory of nature or
> questioning Darwinism DOES NOT VIOLATE THE U. S. CONSTITUTION because it
> does not require tax-funded schools to teach any particular viewpoint,
> but only science;
> THE FACT that many well-qualified academics and researchers, as both The
> Coral Ridge Hour Hour television program and the movie "Expelled: No
> Intelligence Allowed" have shown, have been denied tenure and, in some
> cases, employment as a consequence of questions raised or doubts
> expressed about the evolutionary account for the origin of life:
> I join with thousands of other citizens to insist that our state
> guarantee full protection to
> any instructor in a publicly-funded educational institution, who
> teaches objections to
> Darwinism or Intelligent Design Theory - shielding them from
> termination, demotion,
> harassment, or any other penalty they might incur, due to their
> balanced inclusion of
> Intelligent Design Theory or challenges to Darwinism in their
> instruction of students.
> Please let me know what you intend to do to protect the academic
> freedom of science
> instructors in our state.
> Respectfully,
> Signed
> My response:
> The Honorable Jennifer M. Granholm, Governor of Michigan
> P.O. Box 30013
> Lansing, MI 48909
> Dear Madam:
> One if your constituents E-mailed me a copy of the letter sponsored by
> Coral Gables Ministries about the teaching of Intelligent Design (ID).
> I'm sure you've received many of them. The claim that ID is science is
> bunk. Relatively few of the individuals who signed "A Scientific Dissent
> from Darwinism" are versed in the biological sciences. It took some time
> to collect the signatures. However, a contrary statement was signed by
> many more biologists almost overnight. Additionally, I have read the
> testimony given in the Dover, PA, trial regarding the teaching of ID,
> along with Judge Jones' decision. The judgment that ID is religion rather
> than science is clearly correct. Hence no jurisdiction in your state
> should espouse this view and be subject to judicial condemnation.
> I visited the Coral Gables Church some twenty years ago. I noted numerous
> cars in the church parking lot with bumper stickers claiming that bar
> codes are the mark of the beast, 666. Unfortunately for their view, I
> have yet to find bar codes on the forehead or right hand of human beings
> any place on earth (see Revelation 13:16-18). I believe these bumper
> stickers are indicative of the lack of rationality in much of what the
> group sponsors.
> Respectfully yours,
> Dave (ASA)
> --
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology

David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
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Received on Sat Apr 5 17:29:19 2008

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