Re: [asa] Fw: Message to Jennifer M. Granholm, Governor of Michigan

From: Denis O. Lamoureux <>
Date: Sat Apr 05 2008 - 17:19:08 EDT

Nice observation Dick.

Most of those clergy were trained in seminaries with a non-concordist hermeneutic of Gen 1-11,
while a majority of these scientists are evangelicals, and this (my) tradition is concordist and embraces
an 11th Commandment: Thou shall not accept evolution.


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Dick Fischer
  To: ASA
  Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 8:18 AM
  Subject: RE: [asa] Fw: Message to Jennifer M. Granholm, Governor of Michigan

  Let's see, 714 scientists dissent from evolution while over 11,000 clergy have signed the clergy letter in support of it. I wonder what the scientists know that the clergy don't and vice versa. Maybe our species hasn't evolved enough that we yet have the brains to figure these things out,


  Dick Fischer. author, lecturer

  Historical Genesis from Adam to Abraham


  -----Original Message-----
  From: [] On Behalf Of David Opderbeck
  Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 11:04 PM
  To: gordon brown
  Subject: Re: [asa] Fw: Message to Jennifer M. Granholm, Governor of Michigan


  I don't think the Governor of Michigan is in any event going to pay attention to a letter from a church in Florida FILLED WITH CAPITAL LETTERS.

  On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:53 PM, gordon brown <> wrote:

  Do any of you know exactly what this teacher was teaching and in what class? Did she teach irreducible complexity or Dembski's filter? I am interested in knowing how relevant the arguments in the letter to the governor are. By googling I found out that A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism is worded in such a way that it merely expresses skepticism about the sufficiency of random mutation and natural selection to account for life's complexity. It doesn't mention Intelligent Design, and among its 714 signers are several prominent ASA members. It is not clear that they would all agree with the actions of this teacher or that they agree with each other on details.

  Gordon Brown (ASA member)

  On Fri, 4 Apr 2008, D. F. Siemens, Jr. wrote:

  ----- Forwarded Message -----

  Recently a public school teacher was fired for presenting Intelligent
  Design to her students.
  Coral Ridge ministries wrote an interesting request to the Governor of
  Michigan. I thought you might like to note its contents - for your own
  storehouse of knowledge.

  The FACT that HUNDREDS OF PH.D.-LEVEL SCIENTISTS, including those with
  doctorates from Cambridge, Standford, Cornell, Yale, Rutgers, Chicago,
  Princeton, Purdue, Duke, Michigan, Syracuse, Temple, and Berkeley, and
  teachers at MIT, Tulane, Rice, Emory, George Mason, Lehigh, and the
  Universities of California, Washington, Texas, Florida, North Carolina,
  Wisconsin, Ohio, Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, Georgia, New Mexico,
  Utah, Pennsylvania, and elsewhere, have publicly expressed deep
  skepticism of Darwinism, with one-hundred signing their names to a A

  THE FACT that scientists such as biophysicist Dr. Dean Kenyon, author of
  a leading textbook on biology, astronomer Dr. Allan Sandage, called by
  the New York Times "the Old Man of Cosmology," and countless others have
  NATURE based on their scientific observations;

  THE FACT that leading paleontologists, such as Dr. Colin Patterson of the
  British Museum of Natural HIstory, and the late Dr. Stephen J. Gould of
  Harvard, have admitted that after 150 years of discovering fossils, MAJOR

  THE FACT that teaching the Intelligent Design Theory of nature or
  questioning Darwinism DOES NOT VIOLATE THE U. S. CONSTITUTION because it
  does not require tax-funded schools to teach any particular viewpoint,
  but only science;

  THE FACT that many well-qualified academics and researchers, as both The
  Coral Ridge Hour Hour television program and the movie "Expelled: No
  Intelligence Allowed" have shown, have been denied tenure and, in some
  cases, employment as a consequence of questions raised or doubts
  expressed about the evolutionary account for the origin of life:

    I join with thousands of other citizens to insist that our state
  guarantee full protection to
    any instructor in a publicly-funded educational institution, who
  teaches objections to
    Darwinism or Intelligent Design Theory - shielding them from
  termination, demotion,
    harassment, or any other penalty they might incur, due to their
  balanced inclusion of
    Intelligent Design Theory or challenges to Darwinism in their
  instruction of students.
    Please let me know what you intend to do to protect the academic
  freedom of science
    instructors in our state.



  My response:
  The Honorable Jennifer M. Granholm, Governor of Michigan
  P.O. Box 30013
  Lansing, MI 48909

  Dear Madam:

  One if your constituents E-mailed me a copy of the letter sponsored by
  Coral Gables Ministries about the teaching of Intelligent Design (ID).
  I'm sure you've received many of them. The claim that ID is science is
  bunk. Relatively few of the individuals who signed "A Scientific Dissent
  from Darwinism" are versed in the biological sciences. It took some time
  to collect the signatures. However, a contrary statement was signed by
  many more biologists almost overnight. Additionally, I have read the
  testimony given in the Dover, PA, trial regarding the teaching of ID,
  along with Judge Jones' decision. The judgment that ID is religion rather
  than science is clearly correct. Hence no jurisdiction in your state
  should espouse this view and be subject to judicial condemnation.

  I visited the Coral Gables Church some twenty years ago. I noted numerous
  cars in the church parking lot with bumper stickers claiming that bar
  codes are the mark of the beast, 666. Unfortunately for their view, I
  have yet to find bar codes on the forehead or right hand of human beings
  any place on earth (see Revelation 13:16-18). I believe these bumper
  stickers are indicative of the lack of rationality in much of what the
  group sponsors.

  Respectfully yours,

  Dave (ASA)

  David W. Opderbeck
  Associate Professor of Law
  Seton Hall University Law School
  Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology

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Received on Sat Apr 5 17:21:42 2008

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