Re: [asa] Advice for a Pastor

From: David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
Date: Tue Mar 18 2008 - 16:39:06 EDT

He's written a bunch, both popular and scholarly -- I don't think you can
judge all of his thinking just on the blog title. His book "A Community
Called Atonement" is pretty good, tying together Christus Victor, penal
atonement, and some of the New Perspective, at a popular level. I really
like that he's willing to stick his neck out and challenge us evangelicals
to get outside our box. But of course no one gets it all right.

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 4:07 PM, George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com> wrote:

> 1) I was more concerned with the would-be teacher than with the pastor
> in this situation.
>
> 2) Yes, there is the civil use of the law in addition to the
> theological. (I don't think there's a distinctively 3d Christian use, a
> long-standing Lutheran-Reformed difference.) What's questionable about the
> "Jesus Creed" though is that it consists of nothing but law. There's no
> gospel there. & if that's a person's "creed" then it will ultimately
> function theologically to accuse. If you take seriously the command to love
> God with *all* your heart & mind & strength then you'll realize that you
> just can't do it. & there's nothing else in your creed to look to.
>
> Besides, there's nothing uniquely "Jesus" in that creed. You could just
> as well call it the creed of Moses or Jeremiah.
>
> & whether McKnight intends it or not, with his creed he has succumbed to a
> classic error of liberal protestantism, presenting Jesus primarily as a
> teacher.
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/ <http://web.raex.com/%7Egmurphy/>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
> *To:* George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com>
> *Cc:* ASA <asa@calvin.edu>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 18, 2008 2:14 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] Advice for a Pastor
>
> Re: the person's pastoral call -- I'm not sure we're in a position to
> comment, knowing next to nothing about him.
>
> Re: the blog itself and it's title -- oh, harumph. I think Glen Stassen
> is on the right track in "Living on the Sermon on the Mount," and Stassen
> and David Gushee are further along the right track in "Kingdom Ethics" --
> Jesus' ethical teaching isn't just an impossible standard designed to show
> us our need for grace. It's also a practical teaching designed to bring
> healing and justice into the world. And check out Frank Thielman's "Paul
> and the Law" for a mediate position on the "new perspective."
>
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 1:56 PM, George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com> wrote:
>
> > A lot could be said about this but I'll just point out that it shows
> > (once again) the dangers inherent in the notion that people can be pastors
> > or teachers in the church just because they think they've been called to do
> > so. While the "inner call" is important, it is (except in emergency
> > situations) the "outer call" that's crucial.
> >
> > I'll also note that calling Jesus' summary of the law (which in fact
> > was pretty standard) "The Jesus Creed" is unfortunate. *Lex semper
> > accusat.*
> >
> > Shalom
> > George
> > http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/ <http://web.raex.com/%7Egmurphy/>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>
> > *To:* ASA <asa@calvin.edu>
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:28 AM
> > *Subject:* [asa] Advice for a Pastor
> >
> >
> > Of possible interest for possible response: A pastor of a small house
> > church asks for advice on Scot McKnight's blog about how to handle a
> > militant YEC member. Perhaps some folks here with similar experiences could
> > offer some advice: http://www.jesuscreed.org/?p=3553
> >
> > This may seem a little silly, but lots of different kinds of people in
> > lots of different roles read that site. This sort of thing could be a
> > useful role for ASA members with a pastoral heart.
> >
> > --
> > David W. Opderbeck
> > Associate Professor of Law
> > Seton Hall University Law School
> > Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>
>

-- 
David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
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Received on Tue Mar 18 16:39:47 2008

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