Re: [asa] Why couldn't you write your d*mn book more clearly?

From: George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com>
Date: Sat Mar 15 2008 - 09:02:37 EDT

I have to dissent. Ham's notion that a ~6000 year old earth & "no death
before the fall" are essential to Christianity is nonsense but those are, in
fact, ideas that many - at some times the great majority - of Christians,
including leaders of the church, have held. We can't postumously
anathematize them. While dangerous & disruptive nonsense should be called
what it is & vigorously opposed, it is not necessarily formal heresy.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Walley" <john_walley@yahoo.com>
To: "'gordon brown'" <Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>; <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:29 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] Why couldn't you write your d*mn book more clearly?

Maybe Ken Ham doesn't technically deny any of the fundamentals that we
otherwise share, but he does add a couple of more of his own, like a 6000
year old earth and no death before the fall which they consider part of the
litmus test for orthodoxy. Which is worse, denying shared fundamentals or
adding burdensome and falsifiable extra fundamentals? The net result is the
same, false and destructive teaching. And the NY speaks very harshly about
this.

Granted I would like to give every average church going YEC the benefit of
the doubt and attempt to show them why this is important and hopefully they
wouldn't still insist on it, but in the case of the hardcore ones that
steadfastly refused (like Ham) then I think you have to take action. We see
a pretty good parallel of this in the NT when the Judaizers added to the
gospel the doctrine that they also keep the Jewish law and for which Paul
had a strong rebuke and called "another gospel".

Thanks

John

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of gordon brown
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:49 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] Why couldn't you write your d*mn book more clearly?

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, John Walley wrote:

> Bottom line, I feel Protestantism is flawed because there is currently
> no mechanism to excommunicate people like Ellen White, Herbert
> Armstrong and Ken Ham.

Excommunicating Ken Ham strikes me as being rather extreme. Ellen White
and Herbert Armstrong founded their own churches because they disagreed
with traditional Christian doctrine concerning the Bible or the Trinity.
Granted, Ham reinforces a popular false stereotype of Christians and the
Bible, and we ought to try to correct that widespread impression, but it
doesn't seem Biblical to me to want to excommunicate someone because he
believes in pseudoscience unless he also denies some fundamental of the
faith. Although he may wish that we who are not YECs could be
excommunicated, we should strive not to let our differences with YECs
prevent fellowship with them.

Gordon Brown (ASA member)

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Received on Sat Mar 15 09:05:12 2008

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