RE: [asa] Stupid/Dumb Science and Intelligent/Intelligence Science

From: George L. Murphygmurphy@raex.com <Murphygmurphy@raex.com>
Date: Sun Oct 21 2007 - 17:54:58 EDT

Ps.19 (or Rom.1:20) shouldn't be cited in support of today's ID claims.  The psalmist & Paul were speking of phenomena known to ordinary people in their cultures, which didn't include those discovered only by modern biochemistry. 

In addition, note the contexts:  The 2d half of Ps.19 & the whole of Paul's argument, which shows that people uniformly misuse evidence for God in nature & construct idols.

I'm not sure whether I agree with Planck or not - will have to look at the German.

Shalom,

George

> > > I believe the intelligence design notion is a combination of the following two observations, one biblical and the other one metaphysical: > > > > 1) "The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands." Psalm 19:1. > > 2) "If thus both, religion and natural science, to their manipulation of the faith in God require, then God stands for the one at the beginning, for the other one at the end of all thinking."1 > > > > Max Planck, Religion und Naturwishhenschaft, J.A. Barth, Leipzig (1938), pp. 37-38. [English translation of http://www.bossert-bcs.de/biologie/welt/freiheit/planck.htm at http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.bossert-bcs.de/biologie/welt/freiheit/planck.htm ] > > > > Moorad > > > ________________________________ > > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu on behalf of George L. Murphygmurphy@raex.com > Sent: Sat 10/20/2007 11:41 PM > To: John Walley; PvM > Cc: asa@calvin.edu > Subject: RE: [asa] Stupid/Dumb Science and Intelligent/Intelligence Science > > > > There is not the slightest scriptural reason to think that the bacterial flagellum or blood clotting cascade are part of "God's chosen methodology of revealing himself to humanity." More generally, there is no scriptural reason to think that God either creates or sustains life miraculously - i.e., other than through natural processes. & more generally still, the whole notion that God's "chosen methodology of revealing himself to humanity" is through scientific study of the world. That methodology is his actions (both natural & miraculous - please note that I do not deny the latter) in the history of Israel which point to & culminate in Jesus Christ. > > Theologia naturalis delenda est! > > George > > > > > > > >Of course, that ID is merely the set theoretic complement of regularity > >and chance shows that 'design' is not an explanation but rather a > >position of ignorance based on the fact that science cannot (yet) > >explain a particular feature. > > > This sounds like the modern day equivalent of the Pharisees rationalizing > and dismissing the miracles of Jesus. God is the author of our natural laws > and He chose exceptions to these laws that he worked at His will to be a > testimony to Him. > > And in fact for this correlation to be logical, God obviously intended a > common sense interpretation from the masses of His exceptions to the > standard laws to show His divine handiwork based on their improbability, not > an appeal to ignorance (this goes both ways) and a faith that science will > one day explain it. > > Thus Pim, your rabid ID bashing goes against God's chosen methodology of > revealing himself to humanity. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ! > asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On > Behalf Of PvM > Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 7:09 PM > To: (Matthew) Yew Hock Tan > Cc: asa@calvin.edu > Subject: Re: [asa] Stupid/Dumb Science and Intelligent/Intelligence Science > > As George has already pointed out, this is a very inept response. Of > course, that ID is merely the set theoretic complement of regularity > and chance shows that 'design' is not an explanation but rather a > position of ignorance based on the fact that science cannot (yet) > explain a particular feature. > > I have invited many an ID activist to present their best explanation > for how the bacterial flagellum was 'designed' but given the fact that > there do exist plausible evolutionary explanations or hypotheses, ID > cannot even speak about the flagellum being designed. ID proponents > argue that these explanations are not detailed enough and that design > is still the best explanation, but that is an illogical positi! > on > because ID does not explain anything. > > What has ID to ! > offer be > yond 'design'? Nothing at all really. And the > proof is in the pudding so the speak as ID has yet to propose ANY > scientific explanation for what it claims is 'designed'. > > On 10/20/07, (Matthew) Yew Hock Tan wrote: > > From the THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC BIOETHICS QUARTERLY -- > > > > [my title] Stupid/Dumb Science and Intelligent/Intelligence Science > > > > I chanced upon this very excellent article on intelligent design which I > > want to recommend to all who are open to intelligence design. Among other > > things, it explains why intelligent design is science, and that it makes > > predictions, and is falsifiable, and that the Darwinist theory of NO > DESIGN > > needs to be tested against the competing intelligent design theory of REAL > > DESIGN, and that was what Darwin himself was doing. [But present-day > > Darwinists are obviously afraid to deal with intelligent design theory.] > > > > Let me quote just the following response to intelligent design being a > > "scie! > nce stopper". I think this reply is most excellent and should put a > > stop to all "science stopper" allegations. Same for God-of-the-Gaps. > > > > http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org/NCBQ3_3HarrisCalvert.pdf > > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message. > > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message. > > > > George L. Murphy > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message. > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message. >


George L. Murphy
To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message. Received on Sun Oct 21 17:55:56 2007

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