Re: [asa] Stupid/Dumb Science and Intelligent/Intelligence Science

From: <>
Date: Sun Oct 21 2007 - 14:23:35 EDT

 I guess I should qualify the book a little better before I start excepting it out of context.  It is written to scientist and rational humanists from the scientific perspective.  As such I am limited to what I can convey rationally.  Such conveyance is intrinsically limited to what can be objectively symbolized, and thus insufficient to the acts of a transcendent God.  Such acts must be taken on faith like we take on faith that all the unknowns that face us in science will be some day understandable.  Such actions of God (Jesus) must be taken on faith, not because they are irrational, but because they are transcendent of our current rational paradigm and may remain so.  As such I would apply none of the limitations in this book to Jesus as Jesus was all about speaking to what is transcendent in life and Creation.  

It is the sentence that follows the one you quote that has the qualification for what I find objectionable in the way ID is presented by most of its proponents.  The sentence you actually quote in no way refutes ID or the miracles of Jesus.  Indeed, I personally believe that it is absolutely true.  I feel that God created infinite time and infinite reality from an intelligent vantage that is transcendent of any human recognition and as such beyond our ability to use as a foil against the immanence of God in Creation, against the exquisite rational symmetry we see surrounding us at every juncture, against science. 

And of course I admonish science to admit more carefully the clear Bayesian evidence that Creation is infinite, and thus so is information of it.   I suggest that the transcendence of God will forever dwarf our appreciation for the immanence of God and as such it is our instinct for God that is our guide into the ever more demanding, ever more paradoxical realms that loom in our future.  The easy stuff of science is over.  Quantum theory, uncertainty principal, Godel's incompleteness theorem, chaos theory, all point to a future in science that will require ever greater elements of faith and intuition along with the fundamental objectivity we have developed to date.


>> I appreciate the second paragraph of your
excerpt. However “Proponents of intelligent design propose
that certain aspects of reality are far too rationally exquisite to have
happened randomly, the implication being that there has to be a Creator behind
it all.” from your first could equally
apply to Jesus turning water into wine, healing blind people and raising
Lazarus from the dead, and that is exactly the implication that God intended.




-----Original Message-----


Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007
12:05 AM



Subject: Re: [asa] Stupid/Dumb
Science and Intelligent/Intelligence Science


Wait you two!  You're both right!  It's a floor wax and a dessert topping!  (or breath

mint and a candy mint for you (us) older boomers). 

>>Of course, that ID is merely the set theoretic complement of regularity

>>and chance shows that 'design' is not an explanation but rather a

>>position of ignorance based on the fact that science cannot (yet)

>>explain a particular feature.

ID is just the reaction of people of faith to the shrinking down of

Creation into purely rational terms when they instinctively know that

it is far more involved than we will ever know.

>This sounds like the modern day equivalent of the Pharisees rationalizing

>and dismissing the miracles of Jesus. God is the author of our natural laws

>and He chose exceptions to these laws that he worked at His will to be a

>testimony to Him.

Well, John, here's an excerpt from my book on the subject.  I hope it helps

balance the issue a little, or at least get both sides forget each other and

vent their frustrations on me instead.  It's out of context of the preceding

chapters, but you'll get the gist of it.

(The following is an excerpt from "The God of Reason"  Copyright 2006 by Michael G. Harmon)

The latest
“evolution” of this fundamentalist argument for a naively
simplistic notion of the hand of God is called “intelligent
design”.  Both parties are up to their same old futile
strategies.  Proponents of intelligent design propose that certain aspects
of reality are far too rationally exquisite to have happened randomly, the
implication being that there has to be a Creator behind it all.  They say
this without understanding the first thing about how pathetically inadequate
our human concept of “intelligence” or “to create” is,
compared to the immanent, transcendent, infinite potential of the Creator of
the infinite context of all things seen and unseen.  Of course, the origin of Creation is
intelligent.  It’s not just an intelligent design.  It is a
design that is more intelligent than we will ever hope to comprehend, much less
describe.  It is just one finite speck of local creation from which we
derive our comparatively imbecilic concept of what “intelligence”
might truly be. 

On the other
side of the coin, the most ardent rational opponents to the theory of
intelligent design arrogantly presume that they know enough about evolution,
quantum science, and cosmology to discount the notion that anything could be
intuited as being of greater intelligence than what they themselves can
describe.  Some of these so-called men of knowledge act as if the infinite
rational symmetry which they eternally pursue is somehow not
“intelligent” until they discover and characterize it.  Of course, everything in the symmetrical
Universe of infinite Creation is intelligently manifest.  We are but a
miniscule residue of the unfathomable “intelligence” of
Creation.  Creation is not just intelligently manifest; it is more
intelligently manifest than we can ever know or describe, whether as scientist
or religious devotee.  The proper assertion for both scientists and
Creationists is to claim evolution science as an accurate but very narrow
subset of Creationism, the full character and extent of which are forever
beyond any human capacity to fathom.

(End of excerpted material)

Evolution science is good science.   Creation faith is good


Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out
free AOL Mail!


Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -

To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Sun Oct 21 14:24:21 2007

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Sun Oct 21 2007 - 14:24:21 EDT