Re: [asa] Stupid/Dumb Science and Intelligent/Intelligence Science

From: PvM <pvm.pandas@gmail.com>
Date: Sat Oct 20 2007 - 21:33:25 EDT

Sigh. The logic surrounding John's 'arguments' is rather poor as it
first of all suggests that I am dismissing the miracles of Jesus when
I am discussing issues of science here. Sure, we can all speculate
that God suspended natural law for his miracles, although that's by
itself a suspect argument but in the end, science cannot deal with the
supernatural as it explains everything and thus nothing.

If John wants to approach this issue from a theological perspective, a
perspective which according to John seems more appropriate when
discussing ID creationism, then we agree that God revealed himself in
part through "miracles".

If John had however noticed the context of the discussion then he
would have realized that this was a discussion of science not
theology. Perhaps me mentioning ID may have caused John some confusion
and hence his theological response, and I cannot fault him for drawing
the logical conclusion that ID is not really about science but about
theology after all.

In Christ.

On 10/20/07, John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Of course, that ID is merely the set theoretic complement of regularity
> >and chance shows that 'design' is not an explanation but rather a
> >position of ignorance based on the fact that science cannot (yet)
> >explain a particular feature.
>
>
> This sounds like the modern day equivalent of the Pharisees rationalizing
> and dismissing the miracles of Jesus. God is the author of our natural laws
> and He chose exceptions to these laws that he worked at His will to be a
> testimony to Him.
>
> And in fact for this correlation to be logical, God obviously intended a
> common sense interpretation from the masses of His exceptions to the
> standard laws to show His divine handiwork based on their improbability, not
> an appeal to ignorance (this goes both ways) and a faith that science will
> one day explain it.
>
> Thus Pim, your rabid ID bashing goes against God's chosen methodology of
> revealing himself to humanity.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of PvM
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 7:09 PM
> To: (Matthew) Yew Hock Tan
> Cc: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] Stupid/Dumb Science and Intelligent/Intelligence Science
>
> As George has already pointed out, this is a very inept response. Of
> course, that ID is merely the set theoretic complement of regularity
> and chance shows that 'design' is not an explanation but rather a
> position of ignorance based on the fact that science cannot (yet)
> explain a particular feature.
>
> I have invited many an ID activist to present their best explanation
> for how the bacterial flagellum was 'designed' but given the fact that
> there do exist plausible evolutionary explanations or hypotheses, ID
> cannot even speak about the flagellum being designed. ID proponents
> argue that these explanations are not detailed enough and that design
> is still the best explanation, but that is an illogical position
> because ID does not explain anything.
>
> What has ID to offer beyond 'design'? Nothing at all really. And the
> proof is in the pudding so the speak as ID has yet to propose ANY
> scientific explanation for what it claims is 'designed'.
>
> On 10/20/07, (Matthew) Yew Hock Tan <tanyewhock@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > From the THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC BIOETHICS QUARTERLY --
> >
> > [my title] Stupid/Dumb Science and Intelligent/Intelligence Science
> >
> > I chanced upon this very excellent article on intelligent design which I
> > want to recommend to all who are open to intelligence design. Among other
> > things, it explains why intelligent design is science, and that it makes
> > predictions, and is falsifiable, and that the Darwinist theory of NO
> DESIGN
> > needs to be tested against the competing intelligent design theory of REAL
> > DESIGN, and that was what Darwin himself was doing. [But present-day
> > Darwinists are obviously afraid to deal with intelligent design theory.]
> >
> > Let me quote just the following response to intelligent design being a
> > "science stopper". I think this reply is most excellent and should put a
> > stop to all "science stopper" allegations. Same for God-of-the-Gaps.
> >
> > http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org/NCBQ3_3HarrisCalvert.pdf
> >
>
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Received on Sat Oct 20 21:34:32 2007

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