Re: [asa] Denver RATE Conference (Thousands...Not Billions)_Part 6 & The End

From: Steven M Smith <>
Date: Thu Oct 11 2007 - 12:26:17 EDT

In response to George Murphy's comment ...
>> ... As I've said before, natural processes plus a miracle = a miracle
as far as scientific explanation is concerned. Humphreys' cosmology and
the RATE project (together or separately) are precisely, without
remainder, in the category of the famous "Then a miracle occurs" cartoon -
i.e., they are a joke as far as science is concerned. <<

... Jon Tandy writes:
> ... It is disingenuous to say "science proves" Young-Earth Creation,
when in the end it's not science that proves it, but rather some highly
contrived and speculative miraculous events that are neither witnessed in
the scriptural record nor by any observable evidence. If you want to
believe that "God did it" in a certain way, and ignore the scientific
evidence, then at least be honest and admit this is a purely theological
conclusion. ...<

This brings up the question: If the issue is theological, then why bring
science into the picture? In my opinion, Creation Science groups (a
significant subset of the Young Earth Creationist or YEC movement) have
bought into one of the tenets of the philosophy of scientism -- Science is
the arbiter of all truth. Therefore, science is brought in to support
their theology and to add a mantle of respectability to their position.
This is best seen in their concluding statements that "Science proves the
Bible." Perhaps unintentionally, the YEC movement publically appears to
give science the authority to confirm or refute the Bible. Now in
actuality they do not do so since, as we have seen many times when YEC is
pushed hard on their science, the ultimate fallback position is always
'God did it', 'Miracle', or 'Divine Intervention'. Yet the desire to use
'Science' to prove the veracity of the Bible, to prove the existence of
God, or to prove the existence of a divine Intelligent Designer is to bow
to the god of Scientism. Truth must pass before the judgement seat of
'Science' to be accepted. For me, that is too large a role for science
and too small of a God.

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed herein are my own and are not to be
attributed to my employer ... or anyone else.)
 Steven M. Smith, Geologist, U.S. Geological Survey
 Box 25046, M.S. 973, DFC, Denver, CO 80225
 Office: (303)236-1192, Fax: (303)236-3200
 -USGS Nat'l Geochem. Database NURE HSSR Web Site-

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Received on Thu Oct 11 12:27:35 2007

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