Re: atheist babies (was Re: [asa] Behe's Math... was Arrogance)

From: George Murphy <>
Date: Fri Aug 31 2007 - 11:45:21 EDT

I did not mean to suggest that a parent's influence cannot be a means through which a child is brought to faith, but only that (as Rich re-emphasized), we should not think of infants as being in some state of dreaming innocence. The question of children (or adults) with developmental difficulties is important. Part of the answer is, as I mentioned a few days ago in another setting, that faith should not be throught of in exclusively rational terms, as if a person could not be saved without understanding and assenting to certain propositions. (This is, of course, different for those who are capable of such understanding and assent.)

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: David Opderbeck
  To: Rich Blinne
  Cc: George Murphy ; John Walley ; Iain Strachan ; PvM ; Gregory Arago ; AmericanScientificAffiliation
  Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:24 AM
  Subject: Re: atheist babies (was Re: [asa] Behe's Math... was Arrogance)

  But then there are those of us who are perhaps a bit more Arminian than we'd like to admit, and who believe that a parent's influence really is key...... (and some of us caught between Calvin and Arminius have children with profound developmental disabilities, and so wonder /agonize about how God's grace, free will, and sovereignty play into the fate of their own children as well....)

  On 8/31/07, Rich Blinne <> wrote:

    On Aug 31, 2007, at 7:01 AM, George Murphy wrote:

> It might help to put this business about cute 3 year olds in
> theological perspective. A few years ago a writer to the "letters
> to the editor" column of my local paper stated that "all babies are
> born 100% atheists." He apparently thought that was a profound
> putdown of Christianity but it's basically what Augustana 2 says
> about original sin - that all people are born without true fear of
> God or true faith in God. That is true of Skatje - and you - and me.

    A visiting pastor was asked to do a baptism at a local Presbyterian
    church. He said he would be willing to do that. He was then asked to
    present a white rose to the parents. He asked what it symbolized.
    Well, the innocence of the child, of course. He then asked, "then
    what does the water symbolize?"

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Received on Fri Aug 31 11:46:30 2007

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