Re: [asa] Behe's Math... was Arrogance

From: David Opderbeck <>
Date: Thu Aug 30 2007 - 11:25:54 EDT

I'm going to partly agree with Pim here. It is useful for us to pay
attention to criticism and sometimes to repent of things that have lead to
legitimate criticism (see Merold Westphal's "Suspicion & Faith: The
Religious Uses of Atheism" for some good examples of this).

But there is a difference between listening to and learning from critics and
lacking discernment when critics are making arguments that are overreaching
and unfair or endorsing the critics' ultimate conclusions. It's one thing
to let folks like Meyers, Dawkins and Avalos provoke reflection; it's
another to essentially agree with their twisted assessment of Christianity
and religious faith.

On 8/30/07, PvM <> wrote:
> The real question is do YOU NOT visit such places to understand 'the
> rest of the story'? But regardless of the anti-theistic nature of
> Myers, his blog contains excellent contributions to science.
> As to your final question, the answer is simple: Not enough time and
> priority.
> What I find interesting is how a posting in which I show the vacuity
> of Behe's claims, somehow is turned into a whining session about them
> mean atheists. Come on guys, is this the best we can do when
> confronted with this 'nonsense' by Christians?
> John Walley asks
> <quote>I'm curious, in your worldview, is this a good thing and is
> this the logical outcome for our kids from having an understanding of
> true science free from religious prejudices and the scientific vacuity
> of ID?
> As a Christian Pim, do you not feel the need to also counter some of
> the atheist prejudices of PZ and others? Would you consider that this
> is a symptom of moral or spiritual vacuity and what should we do about
> this in our society?
> </quote>
> I am not sure what atheist prejudices you have in mind. I do not care
> too much about what atheists have to say about religion, why should I.
> Is Skatje's decision to start a atheistic-humanistic club at her
> university a good thing or even a logical outcome ? Certainly the
> scientific vacuity of ID may lead some to come to flawed conclusions
> about Christianity but in the end, Christianity has nothing to fear of
> science. Is it a logical outcome, perhaps, it is a necessary outcome,
> of course not.
> My focus at this moment is on science, and the cost to science (and
> faith) of actions of Christians.
> Examples include global warming and the human cause deniers, who seem
> to be intent on ignoring good science in favor of ... what exactly?
> Other examples include YECism, and most varieties of intelligent
> design.
> Or in this thread, the embarassing actions of Janice who seems to
> have abandoned any attempt to portray herself as a Christian.
> Is it worth it Janice?
> On 8/30/07, Gregory Arago <> wrote:
> > Do you actually visit such places on the internet that put out
> anti-theistic
> > rhetoric regularly PIM? You still haven't taken up my challenge to give
> > voice to Christian views of altruism instead of those of sociobiologists
> and
> > evolutionary psychologists. One might wonder: why not?
> >
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Received on Thu Aug 30 11:26:00 2007

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