Re: [asa] Creationists for genocide

From: David Campbell <>
Date: Mon Aug 27 2007 - 14:05:07 EDT

> > Better check the reliability of the references on this claim. The
> > Hitler-Stalin pact led many communists to collaborate with the Nazis
> > until Hitler broke it.
> You are now confusing the external politics with the opposition to the
> internal politics.

No; I do not know much about who was doing what in Germany, but I do
know that in France the communists largely accepted the Nazis at first
in light of the pact with the Soviet Union and then went in for
resistance after Hitler invaded Russia. As far as the response to
Nazism goes, the communists overall come off not unlike the church or
British politics-the majority trying to avoid overt conflict until it
was obviously unavoidable, in hindsight looking wimpy and gullible if
not collaborationist but only from the safe perspective of not facing
overtly similar pressure oneself (on a small scale, everyone's
response to temptation often follows a similar pattern).

> So you have not read Avalos either? Funny how people seem to be quick
> to create their own strawmen as to what Avalos (and as we have seen in
> the past also Dawkins) believes and not believes

Not sure exactly what they believe; the evidence suggests that they
have been making poorly-thought out claims that may not accurately
reflect what they believe. However, what they say is at points
hypocritical slander. Atheists screw up at least as much as religious
people. The human rights record of atheism is probably worse than
that of religion, but it's not evident that atheism itself is entirely
to blame. Atheistic governments are overwhelmingly communist, and so
problems of communism rather than atheism must take much blame (though
the French revolution produced a government that would qualify as
atheistic by Dawkins' standards for scientists [as opposed to those he
uses for dictators] and between wars and mass execution of suspected
or real opponents led to a couple million deaths). Atheistic
influences on Hitler, such as Nietzsche, religious influences, such as
theologically-inspired anti-Semitism, and the social and political
situation in which there were enough discontents to stir things up and
enough Jews to be a target, all played a role. Blaming any one group
is both bad history and engaging in a similar vilification to what
Hitler did. Of course, that doesn't mean that all vilification is
leading into attempts at exterminating the category of people in
question; it does mean that atheists and religious alike are guilty,
just as Jew and Gentile alike are guilty.

Dr. David Campbell
425 Scientific Collections
University of Alabama
"I think of my happy condition, surrounded by acres of clams"
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Received on Mon Aug 27 14:05:28 2007

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