Re: [asa] The Message

From: Iain Strachan <igd.strachan@gmail.com>
Date: Wed Aug 15 2007 - 19:25:46 EDT

Vernon,

On 8/15/07, Vernon Jenkins <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> Iain,
>
> All who look to Jesus for salvation will surely accept the words of the
> Apostle Paul, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;... "
> (Romans 3:23) - hence they will hardly be _insulted_ by my words.
>

No-one questions Romans 3:23. But what you're saying is that a specific
instance of this is the (almost) universal opposition to your particular
findings. You believe it to be objective evidence - others don't, and
instead of listening to their objections and finding reasoned responses, all
you seem to do is imply that they are mentally deficient. In fact in
quoting Romans 3:23 you're going even further in saying that the refusal to
accept your proposal is sinful. The charge of being insulting therefore
stands unchanged.

We're all in the same boat in this respect, are we not?
>

Apparently you're not (with respect to the numerical findings) because you
accept your findings as a miracle but all those on the list who don't are
thereby sinful. You don't accept the possibility that you may be wrong.

> I find the current situation admirably summed up in Britannica's
> definition of _cognitive dissonance_: it is "The mental conflict that occurs
> when beliefs or assumptions are contradicted by new information." However, I
> do not condemn a person for that unpleasant experience because, in other
> circumstances, I might well be a victim of the same.
>

Yes, you are. Like when I gave you the link to the Francis Collins article
showing ample evidence for evolution. You just refused to accept it because
it contradicted your prior beliefs.

Now, a little question for you. A short while ago you countered Peter's
> comment "Mythical Adam, literal Christ doesn't add up" with the _OK
> button/Enter key_ metaphor. I gather, then, that you believe in a _mythical_
> Adam. May I therefor inquire about his descendants - the Antediluvian
> Patriarchs - listed in Genesis 5. Are they also, in your view, mythical?
> And what about Adam's son, Abel, whom the Lord clearly supposed was a _real
> person_ (Mt.23:35, Lk.11:51)? Was the Lord misguided in his belief?
>

That's a difficult question to answer because we don't know. Christ may
have been referring to these people figuratively, just as I might talk about
what happened to Frodo, or Alice in Wonderland, or Christopher Robin as if
they were real people, which doesn't imply that I actually believe they were
real.

I do not know about the historicity of Adam and the antedeluvian
patriarchs. I think the most likely explanation is that they may well have
been real historical characters, about which little was known, but to whom
legends became attached, and acquired important meanings for us.

My point about the OK button (metaphor) and the Enter key (literal) is that
even everyday language has different levels of meaning, and can't
necessarily be taken literally. Like when you say "my feet are killing me"
do you mean it literally? Or "I've 101 things to do today". Or even "I'm
starving - my stomach thinks my throat's cut".

Iain

Vernon
>
> www.whatabeginning.com
>
> www.otherbiblecode.com
>
> PS My eyes are no longer what they were, so for all further communication
> I would appreciate your using a larger font.
>
> V
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Iain Strachan <igd.strachan@gmail.com>
> *To:* Vernon Jenkins <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>
> *Cc:* asa@calvin.edu
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:39 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] The Message
>
> Dear Vernon,
>
> In a previous post you asked:
>
> Thanks for these observations, Iain. However, you keep referring to
> my associating the non-acceptance of my findings with some acute form of
> 'wickedness' in the person concerned. I don't believe I've ever suggested
> that; it is most certainly completely foreign to my thinking. Possibly you
> have in mind something that I've expressed badly somewhere along the line?
>
> Well right here in your new web page is the kind of thing I meant:
>
> You wrote in "The Anatomy of a Miracle":
>
>
> - *That there is a potentially fatal flaw in man's mental faculties!
> *
>
> It manifests itself here as an immediate and adverse reaction to
> objective evidence that glorifies God, and is not detectable by the normal
> investigative techniques of psychology; invariably, its effect is to cause
> mankind to construct and live in a world of make-believe; to suppress
> questions relating to the deepest issues of life; and, at any price, to
> avoid facing up to the truth concerning the 'How?' and the 'Why?' of
> existence.
>
>
> In other words, (or so it seems to me) you seem to be saying that anyone
> who doesn't accept your claim of a "standing miracle" is mentally defective,
> and those of us trying to do objective science are living in a world of
> make-believe. I do think that most people on this list who read that
> paragraph are going to find it pretty insulting. You've got to accept that
> the reason people question your findings is because they are scientists &
> that's what scientists do, and you have to be prepared to respond to
> criticisms and questions rather than just make out that anyone who can't see
> it as a miracle must have a mental deficiency.
>
>
> Iain
>
>
>
>
> On 8/14/07, Vernon Jenkins <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net> wrote:
> >
> > Forum,
> >
> > There is the suggestion in some quarters that while the 'standing
> > miracle' of Genesis 1:1 may well be accepted as a communication from our
> > Creator - specifically intended to target this generation - its content is
> > indeterminate. My own view is that the information delivered is clear
> > enough - as I explain in "The Message of the Miracle" - http://www.whatabeginning.com/anatomy.htm
> >
> >
> > Vernon
> > www.whatabeginning.com
> > www.otherbiblecode.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -----------
> After the game, the King and the pawn go back in the same box.
>
> - Italian Proverb
> -----------
>
>

-- 
-----------
After the game, the King and the pawn go back in the same box.
- Italian Proverb
-----------
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Received on Wed Aug 15 19:26:21 2007

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